Table of Contents




Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/01/30-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF (with ITS group)

30 January 2024

Attendees

Present
Brian Pech, Christopher Schuler (Smile Digital Health), David Booth, Jeff Brown (Lantana), Paul Knapp, Vassil Peytchev (Epic)
Regrets
-
Chair
Paul Knapp
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

FHIR RDF Update

DBooth slides here: http://tinyurl.com/fhirrdf-2024-jan

chris: Joining on behalf of Bryn Rhodes

DBooth: Consider this proposal: https://jira.hl7.org/browse/UP-377

David: Motion to approve, Brian seconded

APPROVED: 5/0/0

Dbooth: “It is required to enter the 'Sponsor Approval Date' prior to submitting the proposal, but you can model your proposed changes prior to getting approval.”

paul: Do the latter "After we have prepared the actual changes in GitLab"

HL7/kindling#148

dbooth: How to get this PR unstuck?

vassil: Ask in tooling on zulip, Dave ocasek or Mark Iantoro

DBooth: Motion to approve all minutes, Jeff seconded

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2024Jan/att-0003/all-minutes-2024-01-28.html

APPROVED: 5/0/0

FINISHED THE FHIR RDF PORTION OF THE MEETING

<dbooth> i/Paul: Motion to approve, Brian seconde/DBooth: Consider this proposal: https://jira.hl7.org/browse/UP-377

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/Paul/David/

Warning: ‘i/Paul: Motion to approve, Brian seconde/DBooth: Consider this proposal: https://jira.hl7.org/browse/UP-377’ interpreted as inserting ‘DBooth: Consider this proposal: https://jira.hl7.org/browse/UP-377’ before ‘Paul: Motion to approve, Brian seconde’

Failed: i/Paul: Motion to approve, Brian seconde/DBooth: Consider this proposal: https://jira.hl7.org/browse/UP-377

Warning: ‘i/David: Motion to approve, Brian seconde/DBooth: Consider this proposal: https://jira.hl7.org/browse/UP-377’ interpreted as inserting ‘DBooth: Consider this proposal: https://jira.hl7.org/browse/UP-377’ before ‘David: Motion to approve, Brian seconde’

Succeeded: i/David: Motion to approve, Brian seconde/DBooth: Consider this proposal: https://jira.hl7.org/browse/UP-377

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: APPROVED, chris, David, DBooth, paul, vassil

All speakers: APPROVED, chris, David, DBooth, paul, vassil

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/02/08-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF

08 February 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, Erich Bremer, EricP, Rob Hausam
Regrets
-
Chair
David Booth
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

ITS meeting

https://www.w3.org/2024/01/30-hcls-minutes.html

DICOM

Erich: Met w Detlef. INt in working together.

DBooth: What end product?

erich: Their working on an RDF-driven imaging system.
… INt in having an official RDF spec for DICOM. They have their own cut of it, as basis. They seemed open to that idea.

eric: Other stakeholders who should be included?

erich: IDK. They'ave posted an OWL ont. SHACL defined.
… Normative files for DICOM are XML. Have to parse them to get tables out.

eric: The first FHIR RDF was XSLT that converted FHIR XML to Turtle.

erich: Not sure how much to invest, because DICOM puts out a new version every quarter.
… There's an open source python to parse the XML, but it's out of date.

DBooth: Is the XML really the authoritative source?
… Or do they gen it from something else?

erich: It's the authoritative.

eric: W First FHIR RDF, Josh Mandel did something interesting.

erich: They only maintain RDF URI for certain instnaces of data, not in general.

eric: Josh did XSLT magic, parsing structure defs, and the XSLT walked through that and instance data to emit stuff. So the XSLT was scaffolding for generated schema.
… That meant when you changed the spec you didn't update the XSLT, you just regenerated from the FHIR spec.

eric: https://www.w3.org/2013/C-CDA/IJ.xml

erich: Also they have value representations, defs for their datatypes. They have a few numeric types that are representated as strings. Would want ints stored as ints, dates stored as dates, etc.

eric: FHIR has some places that require microparsing, like dates. For FHIR RDF we decided we wanted fully defined types.

erich: W 20B triples you notice the performance quickly.
… I started needing a SPARQL rule set to parse and convert things.

DBooth: Does the XML have well defined patterns, or idiosyncratic?

erich: Fairly well defined.
… Int in anyone else int in this.

eric: Is the python still effective?

erich: Might be worth contacting the innocolitics group. https://dicom.innolitics.com/ciods

eric: In FHIR, representations are defined as representations of an abstract syntax.

erich: Everything is tables of data. CHatGPT converted some of their defs to SHACL

eric: The browser covers everything in the spec? Erich: Yes.

erich: In my implementation, I prefix the hexadecimal as IDs.

erich: Here's their repo: innolitics/dicom-standard

DBooth: If they're already unhappy w XML as the authoritative, might they consider changing to a more readable abstract format? If so, what?

Remaining HAPI updates

eric: Hope to work w Claude in Liden, 2 weeks from now.

ADJOURNED

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: DBooth, eric, Erich

All speakers: DBooth, eric, Erich

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/02/22-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF

22 February 2024

Attendees

Present
David BOoth, Erich Bremer, EricP, Gaurav Vaidya, Jim Balhoff, Rob Hausam
Regrets
-
Chair
David Booth
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

Kindling PR

DBooth: Think it's getting unstuck.

DICOM

erich: They're goingn to give me a copy of their software in begin of march.

Future FHIR RDF work

jim: Met with Emily last friday. Working on plans to finish out the grant, including the Java stuff.

dbooth: If Deepak is unable to continue the shex testing, then we'll need someone to work on that.

eric: Tests need to be run again.. The examples are incompatible w the shex at present.
… You can run it in two modes, with more or fewer checks.
… Want to be able to hit a button to gen the examples or the shex, and hit another button to validate them all.
… If we were set up to do that, we'd have a lot fewwer PRs and it woudl speeed us up.

dbooth: And you'll want a way to gen a single exmaple.
… Also need to update Harold's tutorial to R5.

eric: Harold tried to do it just with Protege. I just did it with OWL QL (manchester syntax). That meant I couldn't compare dates.
… There aren't any plugins you can use with protege doing owl and SPARQL.
… You might need to enhance the expressivility of the thing that rewrites sparql queries.
… And claude and I want help w the shexmap stuff.
… Would be fun to explain the shexmap process to Jim. I need to push the notion of a threaded regex engine to the whole shape expression.

jim: shexmap is an addon to shex?

eric: Shex has an annotation system and an extension system. You can attach a semantic action to a rule.
… You add var names (as URLs)
… Then when you validate one, you get bindings for the var, then you use that when you synthesze to the target.
… When you're validating you wind up w a hierarchy
… Capture the tree and then synth a new doc by walking that tree.

jim: Comparison to sparql construct?

eric: The complexity of optional parts in a query make it complex.
… If you try to do it piecemeal, and you have bnodes, you wind up with discontinuous things.

ShexMap

gaurav: There might be people from the SSSOM team who are interested in interconverting with this: mapping-commons/sssom
… SSOM is a simple way to map ont, developed by Monarch group.

jim: They're int in complex mappings.
… Eg if you map a species-specific mapping term, to a more general one, you might want the mapping to be an OWL expr.
… And LinkML is working on their own transformation system.
… I think of them all being RML-adjacent.

gaurav: linkml/linkml-transformer
… I’ve previously used YARRRML to do these kinds of transformations, but I think LinkML is working on something more sophisticated: rmlio/yarrrml-parser
… All will rely on mappings that exist in SSSOM.

Concept IRIs

gaurav: Small update: got MeSH change request approved by ITS, is now submitted.
… Minor fixes for LOINC update is now queued for manual content check.
… On vac next weekj.
… Might do a bunch of OBO ont at once next.
… Might need OBO ont to officially say what the IDs are.
… SNOMEd mapping stuff we were doing is quite int. Hope we can get it moving again.

SHExMap

(demo by ericP)

rob: FHIR BP requires LOINC
… Also the coding needs one more level of nesting.

DBooth: We used this in a research project to transform one form of RDF to another form of RDF.

ericP: It has some limitations, which I'm working to fix.

erich: What if it doens't find a particular mapping?

eric: It will fail the materializer.

dbooth: IF you need to map to/from FHIR, this could help, because you already have all of the shex shemas for FHIR generated for you.

ericP: You can also provide annotations by reference.

ADJOURNED

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: i/Met with Emily last friday/Topic: Future FHIR RDF work

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: DBooth, eric, erich, gaurav, jim, rob

All speakers: DBooth, eric, erich, ericP, gaurav, jim, rob

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/02/29-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF

29 February 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, Eric Bremer, EricP, Jim Balhoff, Josh Moore, Lukma Ismalia, Rob Hausam
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

Intros

Lukman_Ismalia: Johns Hopkins, CS background PHD, Machine Learning in France. Post doc school of med. Int in FAIR. Medical biobank. Int in DICOM and FAIR.

Josh_Moore: In Leiden, trying to gather people around DICOM. Responsible for microspopy images. Have been pushing toward semantic tech.

DICOM

erich: Started a COVID image data lake. Wrote software for 20B triple store. Did my own mapping of DICOM to RDF. It worked. For multiple reasons, that work will continue. But would rather do community effort on DICOM. Only one proj seemed to still be active. Curious to see how FHIR was handling imaging data.
… Also reached out to David Cluney, who said their's no official casting to RDF.

josh: Two groups int: German equiv of NIH. His employer might call in from the train.
… Another: EU horizon project, funded for next 30 months, in Torino. Want to bring them all together if possible.
… How official can we make on eof the castings?

erich: Current appproach I was working on was SHACL. Seemed to be a good way to do it, could restrict some of the mappings.
… Where are you with the RME version of the formats?

josh: OWL hand written translatoin from noria and rican went nowhere. Want an auto-generated representation.
… Want a formal accepted representation.

erich: Hard becaus DICOM's normative docs are XML, w updates every quarter.
… Python lib pulls it all out, but it hasn't been run in years.

josh: LMK if I can help add interest and pressure.
… OME schema is in XSD, using pydantic for converting to semantic formats.

erich; Where is DICOM at in terms of use in FHIR?

dbooth: Two potential routes: DICOM to RDF directly, or DICOM in FHIR, whch would give RDF for free.

erich: But how much of DICOM would be in FHIR?

eric: Does FHIR rep of DICOM have all of the attributes?

erich: Havne't seen.

rob: Need to talke to FHIR imaging folks.
… .FIrst sentence in the groups description mentions DICOM.

josh: Anohter reuquirement: In icroscopy want to convince vendors to build on a schema to add their own private tags. Hope there's a way to share the meaning of those.

dbooth: FHIR extensions could hold the private tags.
… Sounds like the FHIR route would be best.

erich: In DICOM community, is there a procedure for a vendor to register tags, to prevent clashes

josh: I think there's a lot of flexibility in the private tags.

erich: I don't necessarily need a complete mapping, but want completenexs for future uses.

josh: Needs to automated conversion.

rob: Imaging group: https://www.hl7.org/Special/committees/imagemgt/index.cfm

ACTION: Erich to reach out to imaging group

ADJOURNED

Summary of action items

  1. Erich to reach out to imaging group
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/DICOM/Intros

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: dbooth, eric, erich, josh, Josh_Moore, Lukman_Ismalia, rob

All speakers: dbooth, eric, erich, josh, Josh_Moore, Lukman_Ismalia, rob

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/03/14-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF

14 March 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, Detlef Grittner, Erich Bremer, EricP
Regrets
-
Chair
David Booth
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

DICOM

erich: Josh and I attended FHIR imaging group. Read through their docs. They're working on a mapping to FHIR.
… Done quite a bit. Important, but not the same as castingDICOm to RDF. There's overlap between the models. Need to map them.
… Still need an official casting of DICOM to RDF.
… But I was able to convert DICOM to JSON. DCM dump to JSON is based on the spec. Everything is multivalued.
… Taking that, going into JSON-LD playground, and adding an @context, it turns into RDF as quads.
… But there's a problem. In the doc, when you put nulls into an array in json-ld they get filtered out, but DICOM requires them to be kept.
… Null resets values instead of not asserting anything.
… Want to hold a position in the list.
… The default vocab covers everything. I got an @context for the spec. But custom tags would not be passed through. But @vocab can give a default.
… Also considered a differeent approach, 20B triples had perf issues. Need date strings to be dates, etc.
… But once you have it in there, there isn't much need for the value rep, w extra blank node etc.
… Another possibility would be to make custom datatypes for DICOM, and tag that onto the triple.
… Jena and Virtuoso both can map custom datatypes to native types.
… File comes out looking just like the original DICOM.

ericp: Checked w Gregg Kellogg?
… In this context null has meaning.

erich: Also, stay w these OIDs vs convert to URN?

eric: Pref the idea of deep curation. FHIR had datatypes that are union types, eg date datetime, and we separatted them to different types.
… Suspect a similar rationalization would make it more RDF friendly.

erich: SPARQL UPDATE query could transform the versoin w custom datatypes to the form that has properties.
… Bnefit of matching DICOM form, is that tools could convert it back ti DICOM binary.
… DICOM was adopted because of ease of using it. DICOM to JSON shows how to map them.
… If we can transform back it would be good.

detlef: Checked how they transform DICOM sequences?

erich: They have nested array.
… In DICOM JSON, everything is multivalued.
… Turns into an RDF list. Played w RDF sequence w explicit index.
… But JSON-LD only maps to an RDF list.
… Also for everything w a cardinality of one, everything in DICOM JSON is an array.
… I've only ever seen this in Drupal.

erip: FHIR itself requires preserving list order.

erich: They say "if a property exists in the source but no value, they want it preserved in the JSON, but no value". That works fine for RDF, except if there a vield w only one value.
… How to represent that in RDF if there's no value?

detlef: In RDF there are mandatory properties, even if there is no value.

dbooth: Could have a distinquished value meaning null.

erich: Could also reach out to DICOM group about how to move it forward. But could do community group first.

erich: JSON-LD framing is pretty powerful. Mibht convert optimized RDF to JSON.

ericp: One potential choice is to try for something close to what you want, and show exciting use cases.
… Nice if we can build an ecosystem where all the things in healthcare are RDFy. Tempted to try it and back off if needed.

ericp: Our preprocessing step started to get too complex, not worth it.
… Re framing, anyplace w nested structures won't work well. They'll come out arbitrarily.

erich: Since JSON-LD exists, if they matched it would be a neat way to go. Would like to try as RDFy as possible. Shold be fully transformable back into the original.
… Play w Framing to see if it can do it.

erich: Start a W3C DICOM community group?

ericp: You need 3-4 people to say they're interested.

detlef: I'm interested. At the moment our code is proprietary, need to get permission.

erich: I'm happy to publish my stuff.
… Working to go directly from DICOM to RDF. That's harvesting our covid data.
… 350TB.

ACTION: Erich to initiate DICOM community group

erich: Makes sense to coordinate w FHIR imaging group.
… I'll keep sitting in on mtgs.

ADJOURNED

Summary of action items

  1. Erich to initiate DICOM community group
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: dbooth, detlef, eric, erich, erip

All speakers: dbooth, detlef, eric, erich, ericp, erip

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF

21 March 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, Erich Bremer Detlef Grittner., Gaurav Vaidya, Jim Balhoff, Rob Hausam
Regrets
-
Chair
David Booth
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

IRI stems

gaurav: Stuck in content check because THO is still on R4, but our change is in R5. When they try to update, it causes an error. Mark Dutto (sp?) is looking into it.
… May be nothing to do until thye go to R5. Could put the iri-stem into the comment field until then.
… Second update: Emailed radlex, forum. It's obvious what their IRI stem is, and they refer to it as their PURL, and use it in their OWL file, but unable to find official documentaiton about it.
… In email I suggested a way to move forward.

dbooth: it should be at the follow-yuour-nose location

gaurav: Re OBO ont, there are only two on THO: Mondo and HPO.
… For mondo, have to look at two docs to figure out IRI stem.
… We can cite them. Emailed them about having it in one place.
… Haven't found it for HBO yet.

jim: OBO foundry ID policy should do it.

gaurav: Yes, but I need it for HPO.

DICOM

erich: Raised an issue on json-ld group, to speack w Gregg Kellogg. In DICOM a lot of fields are multi valued, ordering matters, and a lot of them involve nulls.
… No good sparql for it. Asked Gregg how when you put nulls in, then get filtered out or used for defaults in contexts. Except for lists.
… In RDF null means not expressing the triple. Remove first list element to indicate null? Gregg said thats not well formed RDF list.
… HE said sparql group is discussing what is well formed list.
… Jena gives an unbound var in that situation.
… Gregg said json-ld will follow sparql group.
… RDF seq collections have the same issue. Could leave out an element to indicate null.
… Would be clean if lists w nulls are supported. It's in the hands of the sparql group.

dbooth: May have stepped into a hornet's nest.

dbooth: What about using an explicit null URI?

erich: No discussion on that.
… In jena you can map a native type to an RDF type.
… e.g., to deal w numeric or date types.

dbooth: value spaces like int don't often allow null.

erich: Will try to speak w sparql WG folks. But they're talking about reification.

FHIR conversion testing

jim: Spoke w Tim Prudhomme, but haven't had time to pursue.

ADJOURNED

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: dbooth, erich, gaurav, jim

All speakers: dbooth, erich, gaurav, jim

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF

04 April 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, Detleff Grittner, Erich Bremer, EricP, Gaurav Vaidya, Josh Moore, Rob Hausam
Regrets
-
Chair
David Booth
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

IRI stems

gaurav: Talking w both Mondo and Radlex about how to represent their URIs in RDF. Proposed a change to Mondo readme file.
… Radlex, they pointed me to their website and said they are checking on my question.

monarch-initiative/mondo#7478

ericp: Mondo was putting curies into strings, right?

gaurav: We didn't discuss that aspect. Should discuss that also.

DICOM

erich: Issue w lack of suport for null values in RDF lists. Current SPARQL WG is only chartered to work on rdf star.
… RDF allows a triple to be left off. Makes sense to me to leave it out of RDF list, but syntax doesn't support it.

ericp: What's the cost of fhir:null if needed?

erich: If it becomes mixed types it explodes out in JSON.

dbooth: I and a portion of the RDF community views it as a design mistake in the original design of RDF to allow gaps in an RDF list, making it not well-formed.

erich: I don't understand that, becuase it works fine in RDF.
… In DICOM JSON they put null. But can't do that in JSON-LD.

dbooth: It's a TBox assertion, not ABox. It's an assertion about the schema, saying that there is a normally a value for that property,

ericp: OWL says lists cannot be changed by inference.
… OWL rejects any attempt to put axioms in an RDF list where the nodes are not bnodes.

erich: The restriction is for OWL compatibility? ericp: Yes. They needed a building block for places to close the world on lists, and OWL uses lists for stating things.
… Needed to make sure you werenn't messing with the foundation for their inference.

erich: Restriction is to make it a closed list? ericp: Yes.
… Is there a feature for open lists?

ericp: There are OLO lists.

dbooth: Not part of the RDF/OWL standards, and no syntax support for it.

erich: Is it legal to manipulate lists in OWL?

ericp: If you have an OWL ont and it has "all distinct" and you ___ OWL will reject it.

ericp: If you leave gaps in lists it will be harder to work w OWL.
… I think the fastest path forward would be a fhir:null

erich: Literals become an issue. How to handle it in the JSON processing? Could say "If you see this, replace it w a null"?

ericp: Could invent jsonld:null value, for use in Turtle.

dbooth; you'd run headlong into the issue that pat hayes.

ericp: We want something to stick in the list, for JSON-LD.

ericp: It needs to show up in triples somehow, such as jsonld:null

ACTION: EricP to follow up on email list

josh: A bnode feels right

ericp: You can't merge two RDF lists.

ADJOURNED

Summary of action items

  1. EricP to follow up on email list
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/DICOM/IRI stems

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: dbooth, erich, gaurav, josh

All speakers: dbooth, erich, ericp, gaurav, josh

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF

11 April 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, EricP, Gaurav Vaidya, Jim Balhoff
Regrets
-
Chair
David Booth
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

Issues list

https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues

Closed as finished: w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf#131

Closing, not needed: w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf#124

Don't know if anyone did a PR to address this: w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf#121

And it's related to this; w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf#120

dbooth: Out of time today. Thanks!

ADJOURNED

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: dbooth

All speakers: dbooth

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/05/02-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF

02 May 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, Detlef Grinner, Erich Bremer, Gaurav Vaidya, Rob Hausam
Regrets
-
Chair
David Booth
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

DICOM

dbooth: There are two cases: things that are not known -- someone's birthday -- versus something that will never be known, like a probe was broken and we didn't get a measurement at this point in time, and therefore we will never have a value for that thing.

gaurav: Would this be useful in specifying that e.g. a fhir:Observation is missing because it was not permitted/not permitted/not applicable? https://build.fhir.org/valueset-data-absent-reason.html

gaurav: There is also “IND” (indeterminate) in https://build.fhir.org/valueset-observation-interpretation.html

gaurav: FHIR provides a limited way to indicate that something is missing in an observation.

rob: representation of null values is important. Two distinct cases. Not sure whether we need separate syntaxes for them.

erich: I shared null flavors info about DICOM with EricP

erich: What if you don't yet know which use case it is? What should you put there? rdf:empty ?

ACTION: Erich to add option 6 for a single blank node

erich: https://dicom.nema.org/MEDICAL/Dicom/current/output/chtml/part20/sect_5.3.2.html

erich: Might also want to handle null flavors

FHIR RDF update at HL7 WG Meetings: May 21, 11am Dallas TX time.

dbooth: I will report our progress.

detlef: Out next week.

rob: out next two weeks.

IRI Stems

gaurav: No updates yet. Updated PR for review.
… Radlex is thinking about it.

ADJOURNED

Summary of action items

  1. Erich to add option 6 for a single blank node
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: dbooth, detlef, erich, gaurav, rob

All speakers: dbooth, detlef, erich, gaurav, rob

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/05/09-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
FHIR RDF

09 May 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, Erich Bremer, Gaurav Vaidya, Jim Balhoff
Regrets
-
Chair
David Booth
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

DICOM

erich: If a null is in a Turtle list, in JSON-LD it gets blown out into individual triples -- not the nice simple JSON list syntax.
… .I've got a million DICOM records. JSON-LD compaction won't know what to do with it.
… Won't even have a null flavor.
… Would be nice to have null flavors in DICOM spec, but you're only left w null when it's compation.

ACTION: Dbooth to write up preprocess idea

IRI stems

gaurav: RadLex doesn't have a statement that specifically says what their IRI stemp should be. I'll try to convince them. Will also continue down my list to approach others.
… They have a website with resolvable URIs. They just don't say it explicitly.

jim: If someone is publishing an OWL file, that's pretty good doc.

dbooth; Agreed.

gaurav: Waiting for more approvals on mondo proposals.
… Will poke them again.

ADJOURNED

Summary of action items

  1. Dbooth to write up preprocess idea
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/Not even/Won't even have/

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: erich, gaurav, jim

All speakers: erich, gaurav, jim

Active on IRC: dbooth



Minutes downloaded from: https://www.w3.org/2024/05/16-hcls-minutes.html

W3C

– DRAFT –
(MEETING TITLE)

16 May 2024

Attendees

Present
David Booth, Detlef Grittner, Erich Bremer, EricP, Gaurav Vaidya
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
dbooth

Meeting minutes

DICOM

eric: I was goign to work on use cases
… If the model allows you to infer someone's bday afterward, it will make it optional.
… If you want round trippability, you'll write something down for the null, and the advantage of writing json:null, you can recognize it always.
… Roundtrippability requires some recognizable value there.

w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf#141

dbooth: We cannot use something like json:null for the birthday use case, because if we say that sally has bday json:null and Bob has birthday json:null, then inference concludes that they have the same birthday.

eric: I'm okay with the bnode solution.

gaurav: Have we met the goal of making this reversible?

erich: Aside from nulls, the JSON DICOM could mimic JSON-LD, but now I don't think that can happen.
… With a blank node there, it blows up the JSON-LD representation.
… If we mimic DICOM XML, then it avoids the problem.

eric: For FHIR RDF roundtrippability, it depends on knowing the schema.

ACTION: Erich to post XML style option in the issue

HL7 Working group meeting

ACTION: Gaurav to make a slide on IRI stem progress

Slides from Jan meeting: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1grnUDYgp0QkBsgoNsvvt9v7OUhQ7yRh2OIl6ljbpsks/edit#slide=id.p

ACTION: DBooth to check status of PRs

ADJOURNED

Summary of action items

  1. Erich to post XML style option in the issue
  2. Gaurav to make a slide on IRI stem progress
  3. DBooth to check status of PRs
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: dbooth

Maybe present: dbooth, eric, erich, gaurav

All speakers: dbooth, eric, erich, gaurav

Active on IRC: dbooth