EOWG met to discuss resources, several of which are in final stages of development and approval. First Brent reminded the group that the US will implement Daylight Savings time over this coming weekend and to be alert how that might affect schedules in other parts of the world. In discussing changes to the categories of the UI Components list, Eric said he would get further guidance about Susan's objection to adding Themes as a category before making a decision about that. Other considerations led to these resolutions:
<shawn> meeting time next week: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=EOWG+18+March+2016&iso=20160318T0830&p1=43&ah=2
Brent: In the US clocks will go forward on Sunday. The meeting time remains at 8:30 ET but the times in other parts of the world will change
... use world clock (linked previously) to get synced.
<Brent> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/2016Mar04-weekly/results
<yatil> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/2016Mar04-weekly/results#xauicl1
Eric: Four questions were asked about this resource. First was to ask EO if we should add Themes as a category - only one person was opposed and she is not here. We will probably go with the majority.
Brent: PLease check with Susan about how strong are her feelings about this but in the meantime, let's go forward.
<yatil> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/2016Mar04-weekly/results#xauicl2
Eric: next was the question of adding "Snippets" and all were in favor
RESOLUTION: A category called "snippets" will be added to the UI Components list
<yatil> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/2016Mar04-weekly/results#xauicl3
Eric: Third question was to drop the Template category, every was in favor.
RESOLUTION: A category called "Templates" will be dropped from the UI Components list
<yatil> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/2016Mar04-weekly/results#xauicl4
Eric: Final one was to remind everyone to add a component to the list . I strongly urge everyone who has not yet done so to add a component. If you have obstacles about why you have not done it, let me know. I helped Brent identify a component to add so will be happy to help anyone else who needs it.
Brent: So we will put the question on the survey again to remind people to do this before CSUN.
... comments or questions about this?
Shadi: Status update is that we are getting close to realizing this. The TF has been working in the background, particularly Adina and Kevin. We are creating fake websites and apps that will appear in the videos. Have finalized the actors and the production schedule. It has been difficult to secure participation of people with disabilities, especially children. Will be filming in London next week.
We have scheduled four days to shoot all the parts. Our window of time to change narration and text and titles is therefore quickly closing. Thanks to everyone for your comments and participation.
... any questions or comments about any of this?
<shadi> https://github.com/w3c/wai-showcase-examples/issues/109
Shadi: The first question is the idea of the catchy phrase to end all of the videos. Request was to end the videos with something memorable and that tied the videos together.
<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-showcase-examples/issues/109#issuecomment-195076395
Brent: Let's take a moment to read and then you can summarize
<shadi> Video Captions: essential for some, useful for everyone.
<shadi> Colors with contrast: critical for some, useful for everyone.
<shadi> Voice recognition: essential for some, useful for everyone.
<shadi> Text to speech: essential for some, useful for everyone. (possibly read out by text to speech)
<shadi> Clear layout and design: important for some, beneficial for everyone.
<shadi> Notifications and feedback: important for some, beneficial for everyone.
<shadi> Large activation areas: critical for some, beneficial for everyone.
<shadi> Customizable text: critical for some, beneficial for everyone.
<shadi> Understandable content: important for some, beneficial for everyone.
<shadi> Keyboard compatibility: essential for some, beneficial for everyone
Shadi: any reactions, thoughts?
James: The word beneficial is too much, otherwise I like the scripts, suggest to use "good" instead.
Sharron: Also the word "important" is not strong enough.
Shawn: The idea was to say XYZ: [essential/vital/critical/important/needed(by)] for some, [beneficial/useful/helpful/handy] for [all/everyone]
Kevin: Is there a reason why we have the variation of critical value? essential, critical, important.
Shawn: The discussion was to have the phrase be the same. And the fact is that some of these really are at different levels of importance.
... no strong feelings but just an observation.
Shadi: When you say different levels is that of accessiiblity or the cross-benefits?
Shawn: I was thinking accessibility but it is true across the board.
Brent: Yes, like lack of captions is a complete block and some of the others are not.
Joy: Are you saying that page layout is not as important to access? Because some cognitive disabilities really do rely heavily on the structure.
<kevin> +1 to each of these being critical for someone
Joy: it is to me just as important as keyboard access. Format and layout is really key and for me is just as important as keyboard access.
Shadi: I have also been considering the direct mapping to WCAG. Layout is one that is hard to map in that way. Certain levels started creeping into our summary. Captions there is no way to work around to get the information, contrast not as much.
<James_> What about across all videos: essential to some, helpful to everyone
Shadi: are we getting into an issue by differentiating?
Sharron: We should find a phrase that fits all cases for consistency and the power of a repeated message.
<shawn> [ shawn also leaning toward using the same phrase throughout]
Kevin: These are not standards statements, they are promotional videos for the idea of accessibility. Using the same phrase to reinforce is highly effective.
<yatil> [Eric would prefer different statements, but it is more practical to have one common sentence]
James: If it is memorable that outweighs boring. I agree with Sharron and Kevin.
Eric: Conceptually I would prefer different statements but the coherance is difficult to do, so I am fine with one statement.
Shadi: People in the accessibility community understand the nuance, but those who are new will not.
<Brent> "XYZ: essential for some, beneficial for everyone"
Shadi: moving to having one phrase, now the question is what will that phrase be?
... Needed by, essential, critical, vital...preferences?
<kevin> +1 to Needed ... seems more human to me
Joy: Personally it seems to me that needed is the most accurate. The level of need may be different for others but the word needed is accurate in all.
<yatil> [some need it, all benef-it]
<James_> +1
Shadi: We may want to avoid the neediness referring to people with disabilities.
Shawn: Essential may be the one.
Joy: I don't like essential as a person with a disability because it assumes I would not be able to function, whereas if I need it, it is a matter of what I choose or want.
<Howard> like "essential"
Shadi: Important is too weak, essential too strong
Howard: Essential seems correct, I like that one. We are trying to educate people that is the point.
Sharron: ReiteratingKevin's point that need is human.
Howard: That is the risk of going with one catch phrase. Since it does not fit all, I would go with the strongest.
James: I wanted to agree with that - essential is true of all of these for some people. Instead of naming the thing - large targets, why not use the overarching concept "Accessibility - essential for some, useful for all"
Shadi: Is it more important to reiterate web accessibility rather than the reference to the subject ?
Eric: I think you need to state what it was about, a general reference to accessibility could be confusing without the leadin from what this was about. Captioning is part of web accessibility - essential for some, useful for all
Kevin: That will disrupt the simplicity of the message. If it is added into the existing structure you add complexity and lose the simple aspect.
Eric: Captions for an Accessible Web: Essential for some, useful for all.
Shadi: The word essential seems to be the one put forward , anyone care to oppose that as the phrase is used throughout?
<shawn> fine with "essential"
<yatil> No preference.
<Brent> +1 to essential
<James_> -1 to beneficial
<shawn> [beneficial/useful/helpful/handy/good/benefits]
Sharron: Useful or good are plain language
<Brent> +1 to useful
<James_> +1 Useful or good
<shawn> +1 for useful
<Howard> like useful
<Howard> +1 useful
<yatil> +1 to useful
<James_> +1 good
<Howard> don't like good - too generic
<yatil> -1 to good, +3 to useful
<Brent> -1 to good
Howard: What does it mean? Good for what, for who, doesn't seem clear. Useful is more persuasive.
Shadi: The captions are they really good? what is good about them? But they are useful to me to watch on the subway.
Eric: Useful is better
Joy: Good and beneficial seem related, I lke good
Kevin: I am happy to go with useful I just wanted to give my perspective.
Shadi: Further discussion?
... any opposition to the choice of useful?
James: Wanted to put a word in for good. Say the catch phrase outloud and the one syllable is a better cadence and more memorable.
<Howard> still don't like good
Shadi: So are moving toward good - any objections?
Howard: The whole point of the video is to show how useful it is, that fits with the message of the video. If we want it to be a drinking song, I would go with good, but for the summary, I would prefer useful.
Brent: Useful or good depends on what comes before, useful makes more sense in context.
Sharron:Here is what they look like with a reference to accessibility and the specific topic summary:
<shawn> +1 for useful -1 for good
Brent: Have we decided what will be the lead in phrase?
<shawn> +1 for calling out the specific thing. OK with adding "for an accessible web" or not
<kevin> +1 doesn't seem so long and horrible when I say it lots
Shadi: Any objections to adding "for an accessible web" to the title before the catch phrase.
<Brent> +1 to add
<yatil> +1 to add
Kevin: It is not as bad as I anticipated it.
<shawn> +1 to add
<Howard> +.75 to add
<Brent> In this case, I prefer "useful" over "good"
Example: Understandable content for an accessible web: essential for some, useful for all.
<kevin> +1
<James_> +1
<shawn> +1
Shadi: I did not anticipate the word smithing excercise, but I am happy that we got this far and we can place the phrase in the survey for approval.
... need the titles next.
Shawn: I appreciate everyone's time in working through this because I think it will strengthen the whole series. This catch phrase will really be great for the videos!
Shadi: I agree. We will skip the title discussion for now and move it to the survey so I can hand it back to Brent soon. One more question about large activation areas.
... it is jargony, but was a question of moving away from "click"
Sharron: target areas
Shadi: The title screens have this proposal
<shadi> https://github.com/w3c/wai-showcase-examples/issues/108#issuecomment-195073709
Eric: I do not think we should show the title of the video at the start, part of the charm of the videos is the element of surprise.
Shadi: Interesting perspective.
Sharron +1 to Eric, show it at the end
<kevin> -1 to not having title... what would you have in the link to the video?
Kevin: You will have to link to it and so it will have a title, it will be telgraphed one way or another.
Shawn: I think people will need context, maybe web accessibility at the beginning could be enough but they need some context.
Shadi: is that enough just to have the short name?
Eric: It will be on the page but putting it on the screen at the start seems unneeded and I switch to another mode when watching videos and don't read on screen anyone.
Sharron: and they are so short, it seems not needed.
Shawn: it would be relatively easy to change in production, maybe we should just look at in rough cut.
Shadi: I am not hearing requests for additions or changes. There was a suggestion for email address but those will be on the launching page. Otherwise I am hearing we want a more minimal approach overall.
... this week's homework will be to consider the titles.
Brent: There will be a page that launches the videos. Each will have related resources, back ground and places for more info.
<Brent> https://github.com/w3c/wai-showcase-examples/issues/8
Brent: We had a pass at making some criteria, inlcuding the call to action, a notice that this has impact and benefit for everyone - even though we do nt need to use those words, should we use "web accessibility" explicitly?
... there was some consideration of the action verb, experiential, unique to this resource.
... an example is "Web Accessibility Perspectives: Explore the benefits and impacts for everyone" and I would just like to put this out for comment.
Shadi: I really like the proposal. It has a short handle, the lead-in phrase, explore in the subtitle is good, benefits and impact is well addressed, this title does the job. Strong support.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say prefer swapped order: "impact and benefits for everyone" -- (impact for people with disabilities and benefits for everyone)
<shawn> Web Accessibility Perspectives: Explore the impact and benefits for everyone
Brent: Any objections to this title?
<Brent> "Web Accessibility Perspectives: Explore the impact and benefits for everyone"
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask if you are not experiencing it but learning about how other people experience it? Web Accessibility Experiences: Explore the impact and benefits for
Kevin: This is more about the second part...what is the impact for everyone? Not sure it makes sense that way, maybe drop the "for everyone" part.
Joy: Yes I see that too
<Brent> "Web Accessibility Perspectives: Explore the impact and benefits"
<kevin> +1
Shawn: When some people hear web accessibility they think - oh that's for someone else. I though it might be good to get into the title that there are benefits for all in order to engage more people.
<Brent> "Web Accessibility Perspectives: Explore the impact and the benefits for everyone"
<shawn> Web Accessibility Perspectives: Explore the impact on people with disabilities and the benefits for everyone
Brent: Would it help to add "the" before benefits?
Kevin: not sure, in mulling mode at teh moment.
Brent: The longer subtitle makes it all too long and muddies up the point.
<Brent> "Web Accessibility Perspectives: Explore the impact and the benefits for everyone"
Joy: I like the addition of "the" before benefits
Howard: Video might be in the title, that is what I have trying to think about without making it too long.
Brent: the work perspectives and explore was meant to give that sense wihtout using the word video, might be a reach.
<James_> "Web Accessibility Perspectives: Exploring the impact and benefits for everyone"
<shawn> [ about "everyone" vs "all", the catch phrase we end up with is "Understandable content for an accessible web: essential for some, useful for all." ]
James: I prefer the word exploring
<shawn> +1 to not the extra "the"
Brent: In looking for a word that calls people to action - explore does that more than exploring
<shawn> fine with "Explore" as call to action, even tho it's imperative
James: I would not want to make people feel like they are being commanded rather that are being invited, come join us
Brnt: There are four options/variations of this title and will put them into a survey. Does anyone have opposition to "all" instead of "everyone"
<Howard_> Could try to put UD in subtitle
Brent: Thanks great progress on title, could someone make a voting question on the survey?
Brent: I am pulling together a participant matrix meant to gather background within the group so we have an idea of what skills we have to work with as we transition into more active roles of creating and maintaining EOWG resources.
... will help as well with recruitment. Will send out today or Monday to continue to build our group and improve outcomes for the work we do.
... There are two surveys open - thourough review of Planning and managing Guide, also an approval survey for new QuickRef and will also have our weekly survey opening later today.
... remember to update your availability for the teleconference. Thanks for participation today, welcome Joy. Bye