- From: Norm Tovey-Walsh <norm@saxonica.com>
- Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 17:43:10 +0000
- To: public-xslt-40@w3.org
Hello,
Here are draft minutes from today’s meeting:
https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html
QT4 CG Meeting 150 Minutes 2026-01-27
[1]Meeting index / [2]QT4CG.org / [3]Dashboard / [4]GH Issues / [5]GH
Pull Requests
Table of Contents
* [6]Draft Minutes
* [7]Summary of new and continuing actions [0/5]
* [8]1. Administrivia
+ [9]1.1. Roll call [9/11]
+ [10]1.2. Accept the agenda
+ [11]1.3. Approve minutes of the previous meeting
+ [12]1.4. Next meeting
+ [13]1.5. Review of open action items [2/5]
+ [14]1.6. Review of open pull requests and issues
o [15]1.6.1. Merge without discussion
o [16]1.6.2. Close without action
o [17]1.6.3. Substantive PRs
* [18]2. Technical agenda
+ [19]2.1. PR #2394: 2361 Use upper case for encoding names;
comparisons are case-blind
+ [20]2.2. PR #2362: 2355 bin:infer-encoding: further alignments
+ [21]2.3. PR #2350 / #2247: Generators: any progress to report?
+ [22]2.4. PR #2019: 1776: XSLT template rules for maps and
array
* [23]3. Any other business
+ [24]3.1. Where are we and where are we going?
Draft Minutes
Summary of new and continuing actions [0/5]
* [ ] QT4CG-143-02: MK to try to recover the ability to extract
formal equivalences into tests
* [ ] QT4CG-143-03: JK to look for C14N test suites.
* [ ] QT4CG-144-01: MK to consider if any now lost value comparisons
should be added as examples.
* [ ] QT4CG-148-02: NW to publish a dated draft after QT4CG-148-01 is
complete.
* [ ] QT4CG-149-01: CG to draft a new PR with the common rule note.
* [ ] QT4CG-149-02: MK to update the PR #2372 so that the "?" are
part of the comment.
* [ ] QT4CG-150-01: NW to ask Jirka for a room at XML Prague for
Tuesday/Wednesday
* [ ] QT4CG-150-02: Everyone review the "nice to have" tags and
object where they wish
* [ ] QT4CG-150-03: NW to setup an agenda item to review open issues
* [ ] QT4CG-150-04: NW to see about a status update on that PR;
possibly schedule discussion
1. Administrivia
1.1. Roll call [9/11]
Regrets: JWL.
* [X] David J Birnbaum (DB)
* [ ] Reece Dunn (RD)
* [X] Christian Gr¸n (CG)
* [X] Joel Kalvesmaki (JK)
* [X] Michael Kay (MK)
* [X] Juri Leino (JLO)
* [ ] John Lumley (JWL)
* [X] Dimitre Novatchev [-x:20]
* [X] Alan Painter (AP
* [X] Wendell Piez (WP)
* [X] Norm Tovey-Walsh (NW) Scribe. Chair.
1.2. Accept the agenda
Proposal: Accept [25]the agenda.
Accepted.
1.3. Approve minutes of the previous meeting
Proposal: Accept [26]the minutes of the previous meeting.
Accepted.
1.4. Next meeting
The next meeting is planned for 3 February 2026.
No regrets heard.
1.5. Review of open action items [2/5]
* [ ] QT4CG-143-02: MK to try to recover the ability to extract
formal equivalences into tests
* [ ] QT4CG-143-03: JK to look for C14N test suites.
* [ ] QT4CG-144-01: MK to consider if any now lost value comparisons
should be added as examples.
* [ ] QT4CG-148-02: NW to publish a dated draft after QT4CG-148-01 is
complete.
* [ ] QT4CG-149-01: CG to draft a new PR with the common rule note.
* [ ] QT4CG-149-02: MK to update the PR #2372 so that the "?" are
part of the comment.
JK would like review of the samples in his PR. MK to try.
1.6. Review of open pull requests and issues
This section summarizes all of the issues and pull requests that need
to be resolved before we can finish. See [27]Technical Agenda below for
the focus of this meeting.
1.6.1. Merge without discussion
The following PRs are editorial, small, or otherwise appeared to be
uncontroversial when the agenda was prepared. The chairs propose that
these can be merged without discussion. If you think discussion is
necessary, please say so.
* PR [28]#2392: 2384 Clarify that fn:xsd-validator can validate
attributes
* PR [29]#2391: 2378 HTML indenting: clarify the definition of inline
elements
* PR [30]#2363: 2349 Revert array:join
Proposal: Merge without discussion.
Accepted.
1.6.2. Close without action
It has been proposed that the following issues be closed without
action. If you think discussion is necessary, please say so.
* Issue [31]#2360: fn:root() vs. absolute path expressions
* Issue [32]#2354: `fn:append`
* Issue [33]#2351: Current Drafts: What will we keep, what may be
dropped?
* Issue [34]#2159: JNodes: Learning from JSONiq?
* Issue [35]#2127: JNodes: Include atomic items
* Issue [36]#1944: Try/Catch/Finally - order of evaluation
Proposal: Close with no further action.
Accepted.
1.6.3. Substantive PRs
The following substantive PRs were open when this agenda was prepared.
* PR [37]#2394: 2361 Use upper case for encoding names; comparisons
are case-blind
* PR [38]#2362: 2355 bin:infer-encoding: further alignments
* PR [39]#2350: 708 An alternative proposal for generators
* PR [40]#2247: 716 Deferred Evaluation in XPath - the f:generator
record
* PR [41]#2019: 1776: XSLT template rules for maps and array
2. Technical agenda
2.1. PR #2394: 2361 Use upper case for encoding names; comparisons are
case-blind
See PR [42]#2394.
MK introduces the PR.
* MK: We've always believed that encodings are case blind, it's a
matter of saying it in the right places.
+ ... It runs across specs a fair bit.
* MK: In F&O: a note that encoding names are compared without regard
to case.
* MK: Most of the other changes are to use upper case in examples and
things.
* JLO: The minus sign is now mandatory?
* MK: We say that "UTF-8" has to be accepted, we don't say that
"UTF8" without the hyphen should be rejected.
+ ... In practice, if you go down to Java or C# to get your
encoding technology, it'll accept both.
* JLO: Would it be interesting to have those encodings as a symbol or
a QName so that we can reuse them?
* MK: I'm not sure how one would do that. We could have a data type.
* JLO: An enum?
* MK: We don't have a way of defining an open enum.
* CG: I guess this PR will cause with conflicts with the next one.
We'll just have to work it out.
Proposal: Accept this PR.
Accepted.
2.2. PR #2362: 2355 bin:infer-encoding: further alignments
See PR [43]#2362.
* CG: This was caused by some observations by MK that the error
handling wasn't clear.
+ ... I found other edge cases, so I decided to try to handle
them like unparsed text.
+ ... I think we should change the F&O spec to refer to these
rules.
* CG: One note: fn:unparsed-text doesn't only look at the bytes; it
looks at external encodings and media types.
+ ... I implemented both variants and it seemed like alignment
would be better.
Proposal: Accept this PR.
Accepted.
2.3. PR #2350 / #2247: Generators: any progress to report?
See PR [44]#2350 and [45]#2247.
* MK: I think we need to stand back from the detail and think about
what our strategy is here.
+ ... It probably makes sense to do that in the larger context
of the whole project.
+ ... What's the balance between finishing and doing more.
* DN: I have a good summary of what has been done.
+ ... (DN shares his screen)
+ ... [46]DN's comment on the PR, and following comments
* DN: Generator record proposal introduces a first-class abstraction
for generators.
+ ... We don't depend on implementation-dependent magic
+ ... Guaranteed that our code is portable across any XPath 4
compliant implementation
+ ... We are ready to proceed
Come back to do detailed review.
* MK: I think that there's on the order of forty-two hours of work
just in reviewing it.
2.4. PR #2019: 1776: XSLT template rules for maps and array
See PR [47]#2019.
Not ready for discussion.
* MK: I'm long overdue on revising this proposal.
+ ... I think this is the biggest outstanding "must do" items.
3. Any other business
3.1. Where are we and where are we going?
* NW: Any interest in a face-to-face meeting in Prague?
Some interest.
ACTION QT4CG-150-01: NW to ask Jirka for a room at XML Prague for
Tuesday/Wednesday
* MK: I've gone through the issues list and tagged some as
"nice-to-have".
+ ... We have to draw a line and we'd still have a conherent
spec without those things.
* NW: You sound determined to move to the end game and get finished.
* MK: I'd like to finish this in 2027 and if we're going to achieve
that, we need to start closing down options.
Some discussion of EXPath specs; we're doing File and Binary, but
others that happen could be done on a different schedule.
* WP: I think it's important to work out how big these buckets are.
Some discussion of nice-to-have features.
* MK: My feeling is that if we have a coherent proposal with test
cases that we can accept, then we can take it. But if we don't,
then it doesn't hold up the work.
ACTION QT4CG-150-02: Everyone review the "nice to have" tags and object
where they wish
ACTION QT4CG-150-03: NW to setup an agenda item to review open issues
* MK: Where are we on publishing a stable draft?
* NW: I'm hoping to do that this week.
* MK: What are we going to do about cleaning them up and fixing the
status sections.
* NW: My plan is to simply add a note to each status section saying
that it's stable. If we wanted to clean up all the dangling
references and such, write proper status sections, etc. I think
that's a month's work. I'd rather not wait that long.
* MK: Okay.
* CG: what about [48]RUVs proposal?
* MK: I'm torn on that one because of the parser implications.
* NW: Yes, I've been leaving that one blocked on the assumption that
unbounded lookahead is a non-starter.
ACTION QT4CG-150-04: NW to see about a status update on that PR;
possibly schedule discussion
NW also observes that there are some unresolved questions about what
form our final documents can take vis-a-vis W3C policies about
Community Groups and Working Groups.
References
1. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/
2. https://qt4cg.org/
3. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard
4. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues
5. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pulls
6. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#minutes
7. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#new-actions
8. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#administrivia
9. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#roll-call
10. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#agenda
11. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#approve-minutes
12. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#next-meeting
13. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#open-actions
14. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#open-pull-requests
15. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#merge-without-discussion
16. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#close-without-action
17. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#substantive
18. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#technical-agenda
19. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#pr-2394
20. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#pr-2362
21. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#pr-2350
22. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#pr-2019
23. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#any-other-business
24. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#h-7AB4E5D4-B0D5-4AB1-B2EF-E2CA108947C3
25. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/agenda/2026/01-27.html
26. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-20.html
27. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2026/01-27.html#technical-agenda
28. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2392
29. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2391
30. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2363
31. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/2360
32. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/2354
33. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/2351
34. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/2159
35. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/2127
36. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1944
37. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2394
38. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2362
39. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2350
40. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2247
41. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2019
42. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2394
43. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2362
44. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2350
45. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2247
46. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/2247#issuecomment-3774369494
47. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-2019
48. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pull/2345
Be seeing you,
norm
--
Norm Tovey-Walsh
Saxonica
Received on Tuesday, 27 January 2026 17:43:17 UTC