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<trackbot> Date: 26 March 2013
<scribe> ScribeNick: fjh
no announcements
Approve minutes from 5 March 2013
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2013Mar/att-0001/minutes-2013-03-05.html
RESOLUTION: Minutes from 5 March 2013 are approved
fjh: On 11 April expect to publish 1.1 Recs, updated WG Notes and all 2.0 drafts as WG Notes
... we need to extend the charter, have message to tlr regarding status of chartering, both for maintenance and XML Normalization
... waiting for feedback and draft from tlr
<scribe> ACTION: tlr to provide draft charter for XML Security maintenance, including XML Normalization, share draft with WG, will this require re-joining? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/26-xmlsec-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-936 - Provide draft charter for XML Security maintenance, including XML Normalization, share draft with WG, will this require re-joining? [on Thomas Roessler - due 2013-04-02].
fjh: hopefully this will not require rejoining the WG
Review and discussion of (revised) XML Normalization draft, see http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Drafts/xml-norm/Overview.html
<Gerald-E> Zakim Gerald-E is aabb
(includes minor editorial revisions - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2013Mar/0004.html )
fjh: additional comments from Jim - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2013Mar/0007.html
pdatta: I think we can work from the draft Jim produced, so I will not produce a different draft
fjh: we have to decide as a WG our plans for this document before we do more work
scantor: not sure I understand the abstract as to why this makes it simpler and easier to process, when libraries can already handle XML
pdatta: agrees with this concern
scantor: canonicalization not really needed for serialization strategy, not sure needed for parsing, parser can handle input stream despite variations, so trying to understand motivation
jdovey: more for client of parser, not useful for SOAP or XML RPC where endpoints know what to expect, but on ebook side various tools can produce books
... so when processing documents having to check that namespaces are correct and that things are in right order
scantor: that is XML
jdovey: devices are constrained, so want to limit the validation parser has to do
... so would prefer to have string comparisons of prefixes rather than dealing with URLs
... want to simplify handing namespaces for example
scantor: canonicalization does not guarantee prefix values
jdovey: want to normalize the prefixes, similar to sequential namespace numbering as in C14N2
fjh: there are no intermediaries in this case to cause changes to the XML
jdovey: page templates
scantor: you are trying to create a shorthand profile for the structure of the document to avoid building a full parser on the client
... theoretical advantage to have that algorithm re-use c14n algorithm if that algorithm exists or is supported already, but this one does not already, the 2.0 one
... so would you be better off with something more compact or constrained
jdovey: found c14n2 algorithms simple to implement
scantor: QName awareness might be more difficult with not visibly used namespaces, but maybe you are not needing that
jdovey: that is true
... epub CFI we might find XPath useful for CFO use case
fjh: think Jim is trying to cut C14N down to simplify, perhaps we should have an initial simple version
jdovey: might want it extended to other stuff later
scantor: you are trying to define an API here, could define interface to normalization algorithm, allowing other algorithms later
jdovey: trying to define how to use with SAX parser
fjh: not sure I understand why need different test cases from C14N2 test cases, given that the pseudocode is roughly the same
jdovey: have added some new material, also do not output text but modify stream of events, different output
... of course name is confusing as well
... question how namespaces should be output as well, as attributes or only namespace-mapping events
pdatta: not related to security as such, at Oracle we have a different group looking at this, wonder if this should be moved into another WG
... EXI also does some namespace work
fjh: not sure EXI would offer simplicity that would fit into the ePub work
jdovey: agrees
fjh: I can check about XML WG interest in W3C, but assuming this work stays in this WG, what do we think
pdatta: I'm in the security space, not the XML Group, so do not see myself doing interop, but maybe there is someone in that area of Oracle, will check
fjh: at this point you've already done interop on C14N2 and test cases, unless I'm mistaken
pdatta: yes, that is correct, but given that the use cases and goals are different, I anticipate there will be changes, which would make it difficult to revise the testing and complete interop
<scribe> ACTION: fjh to follow up with XML CG about interest and possibility of doing this work in another WG, such as XML Core. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/26-xmlsec-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-937 - Follow up with XML CG about interest and possibility of doing this work in another WG, such as XML Core. [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-04-02].
fjh: now is good time to check with other W3C XML groups as the chartering is in process
... seems that this WG might not be appropriate as it does not look like it would have adequate participation to complete interop
... but it has provided a useful starting point with C14N2
... I think the goal is to get this done, regardless of where
jdovey: that is ok
pdatta: can you please send email regarding the use cases
jdovey: will have to see what I can share, maybe I can give some examples
fjh: please send to the list
jdovey: ok
fjh: the editorial changes you suggested in your email looked fine to me Jim, not sure worth changing the pseudocode formatting at this point
... want to talk about last question
jdovey: when processing namespaces when become used become attributes on element, but isn't it better to create SAX2 beginNamespaceMapping and endNamespaceMapping events at the point at which they become visibly utilized
... concerned about details of how SAX implementation will work
... would also like to better define details of StAX parsing
... do not want to add items to attribute index when not necessary
<scribe> ACTION: pdatta to share XML Normalization with Oracle XML team to determine interest, especially in interop [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/26-xmlsec-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-938 - Share XML Normalization with Oracle XML team to determine interest, especially in interop [on Pratik Datta - due 2013-04-02].
fjh: it looks like the consensus of members of this call is that we should not expect this work to progress to Rec in this WG as we may not have the correct participants for interop
... this does not mean that the work should not progress, but it may be more appropriate in another group, or we may need to get other participants in this group
... that said, it probably makes sense to revise the draft to include more detail on the events work, but that is your decision, seems like it would be needed anyway
jdovey: yes I can make this change
fjh: I can help check in the draft, help with CVS etc
ACTION-932?
<trackbot> ACTION-932 -- Pratik Datta to produce a C14N1.2 draft for next week -- due 2013-03-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/932
fjh: this no longer is needed, we will work from Jim's draft
close ACTION-932
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-932 Produce a C14N1.2 draft for next week.
ACTION-933?
<trackbot> ACTION-933 -- Frederick Hirsch to help Jim get setup with C14N2 source and editing -- due 2013-03-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/933
ACTION-935?
<trackbot> ACTION-935 -- James Dovey to draft use cases and clarifying material for new canonicalization draft -- due 2013-03-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/935
ACTION-935: see http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Drafts/xml-norm/Overview.html
<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-935 draft use cases and clarifying material for new canonicalization draft.
ACTION-935: Jim will also see if he can share more examples on the list
<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-935 draft use cases and clarifying material for new canonicalization draft.
close ACTION-935
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-935 draft use cases and clarifying material for new canonicalization draft.
ISSUE-234?
<trackbot> ISSUE-234 -- Reference SP800-56A later in publication process if the latest version is no longer a draft -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/234
RESOLUTION: Cancel 2 April 2013 teleconference
no other business