W3C

Web Services Addressing Working Group Teleconference

11 Apr 2005

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Abbie Barbir (Nortel Networks)
Andreas Bjärlestam (ERICSSON)
Ugo Corda (SeeBeyond Technology Corporation)
Glen Daniels (Sonic Software)
Vikas Deolaliker (Sonoa Systems, Inc.)
Paul Downey (BT)
Michael Eder (Nokia)
Robert Freund (Hitachi, Ltd.)
Arun Gupta (Sun Microsystems, Inc.)
Hugo Haas (W3C)
Marc Hadley (Sun Microsystems, Inc.)
David Hull (TIBCO Software, Inc.)
Yin-Leng Husband (HP)
Amelia Lewis (TIBCO Software, Inc.)
Anish Karmarkar (Oracle Corporation)
Mark Little (Arjuna Technologies Ltd.)
Jonathan Marsh (Microsoft Corporation)
Jeff Mischkinsky (Oracle Corporation)
David Orchard (BEA Systems, Inc.)
Mark Peel (Novell, Inc.)
Tony Rogers (Computer Associates)
Tom Rutt (Fujitsu Limited)
Davanum Srinivas (Computer Associates)
Steve Vinoski (IONA Technologies, Inc.)
Pete Wenzel (SeeBeyond Technology Corporation)
Steve Winkler (SAP AG)
Prasad Yendluri (webMethods, Inc.)
Absent
Dave Chappell (Sonic Software)
Francisco Curbera (IBM Corporation)
Jacques Durand (Fujitsu Limited)
Yaron Goland (BEA Systems, Inc.)
Paul Knight (Nortel Networks)
Philippe Le Hégaret (W3C)
Eisaku Nishiyama (Hitachi, Ltd.)
Ales Novy (Systinet Inc.)
Rich Salz (DataPower Technology, Inc.)
Jiri Tejkl (Systinet Inc.)
Greg Truty (IBM Corporation)
Regrets
Rebecca Bergersen (IONA Technologies, Inc.)
Martin Gudgin (Microsoft Corporation)
Nilo Mitra (ERICSSON)
Ümit Yalçınalp (SAP AG)
Chair
Mark Nottingham
Scribe
Jonathan Marsh

Contents


minutes

Chair: Any corrections?
... Any objection to accepting the minutes for 4 April 2005 tlecon

Action Items

<scribe> DONE: 2005-04-04: Anish Karmarkar to propose issue about relationship between destination property and WSDL

<scribe> DONE: 2005-04-04: Hugo Haas to review IPR details on test case documents

Expect today: 2005-04-04: Glen Daniels to prose an issue that captures the async requirements in the charter.

Expect for FTF: 2005-04-04: Paul Downey to create initial test cases document for discussion

<scribe> UNKNOWN: 2005-04-04: issue 021 - Francisco Curbera to revise proposal

<scribe> ONGOING: 2005-04-04: Hugo Haas to discuss issues surrounding WSDL document split with W3T/W3M, report back

FTF meeting expectations

Chair: Will get a revised agenda out
... main topics: WSDL Binding, issue 21 and async work
... other work regards Last Call comments and test document.
... My plan is to not spend the whole FTF on the WSDL doc, depending on how many LC issues we have as of early next week.
... Both process, and start talking about issues.

Tom: Is there a start time recorded?

Chair: Yes, in the mailed agenda.

<mnot> http://www.w3.org/mid/9fae62e3a8834948e201e52ab89de93c@bea.com

Tom: There is a reception area, wait there for escort. On-site cafeteria and nearby restaurants.
... Internet access, wired and wireless. Speakerphone to dial into Zakim.

Hugo: Will check on the dial-in number.

Chair: June FTF registration up, please register soon.
... Some pushback on the dates in WSDL.
... WSDL WG will meet T/W to avoid the holiday.
... WS-A Wed afternoon session cancelled, just meet Th/F.
... June 2-3.

Winkler: , cancel room for Monday?

Glen: Don't know the scope.

Winkler: Won't cancel till after this next FTF.

WSDL Binding spec publication

Chair: Our latest public spec for the WSDL Binding spec isn't consistent with the LC specs.

<bob> good idea

Chair: SHould we repub?

MarcH: Has it changed that much? Not that much value.

Hugo: We moved the metadata stuff.

Paul: What is the implication of the TF on this document?
... Might be nice to have a cutoff before the TF impacts kick in.
... Useful to publish to show where we were at this point in time.

(nobody thinks it's a bad idea.)

Chair: Only downside is we might make a lot of changes next week and repub shortly after.

Hugo: Or we could publish right after next week. I have more time to publish after next week.
... Only problem is namespaces if we publish twice within a calendar month.
... If we use the same dates as we did for the other LC docs it makes it easy to pub.

Chair: Any objections? Editors would have license to deal with namespaces and so forth.
... No objections

RESOLUTION: to publish the WSDL Binding spec as a WD.

Proposed and New Issues

Chair: Use RDDL at namespace URIs
... plans to add this to the issues list.

<scribe> ACTION: Jonathan to draft a sample RDDL doc to further the proposal. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/11-ws-addr-minutes.html#action01]

Chair: Determining the value of [destination] from WSDL.

Anish: Last week we discussed how to determine the value of [destination] by looking at the WSDL.
... The issue is that there is no mechanism in WSDL.
... Our intro to the WSDL binding says that this specs binds the abstract properties defined in the core.
... destination is a required property.
... Five proposals:
... 1) use wsdl20:endpoint/@address attribute
... 2) wsaw:UsingAddressing/@destination
... 3) (2) but default to (1)
... 4) wsdl20:endpoint/wsa:EndpointReference
... 5) (4) but default to (1)

Prasad: Are these alternate proposals?

Anish: Yes.
... 3 and 5 represent the possible combinations.

Hugo: You say in (1) "in the absence of additional information". What is that?

Anish: There is no clear indication that the WSDL writer has put in something special. You may be using WSDL doc in conjunction with something else. Didn't want to force you to use this value in that case.

Hugo: So, "in case you have an extension"?

Anish: But in proposal 1 there is no extension.

Chair: Anish also proposed another issue
... How to specify [reference parameters] in WSDL.

Anish: Similar problem, similar options as for the previous issue.
... 1) wsdl20:endpoint/wsa:ReferenceParameters
... 2) wsdl20:endpoint/wsa:EndpointReference
... Gives you the power of EPRs in WSDL.

MarcH: Sounds like a winner to me

?: If you have EPR and address, which one would has priority?

Anish: If they are different, use the one in the EPR.

MarcH: A non-WSA aware client would use the @address.

Anish: We also get back to the difference between logical and network address.

DaveH: You want to be able to say this service is located at this endpoint, which may include refparams.

Anish: Yes.
... There is a use case where you may want to include ref params in your WSDL.
... Second, you may have multiple ways to get to the same destination, potentially you could use the same destination in different endpoints.

DaveH: How does this work downlevel?

Anish: You'd use wsdl:required.

[Missing Ugo's point...[

Chair: We'll be addressing this next week.
... We've talked about [ref params], but our charter says we need to consider other properties.
... Seems like people thought we've already dealt with the rest or decided we didn't need to.
... I'll probably raise an issue about this to track it.

<scribe> ACTION: Chair to raise an issues checking that we've looked at knobs for each property in WSDL. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/11-ws-addr-minutes.html#action02]

i020 - Addressing and WSDL

Chair: Anish has a new proposal.

<mnot> http://www.w3.org/mid/42517FD4.9070206@oracle.com

Chair: Discussed this last week. People thought it was reasonable now that we've dropped the difference between logical and network addresses.
... Do we need more time to look at this?

Jonathan: Yes.

Prasad: Yes

Chair: We'll try to close this next week.

i021 - WSDL Extension for Addressing

Chair: Still waiting for Paco's Action.
... Anything else we can do today?>

Prasad/Jonathan: Related issue on splitting the wsaw namespace between specs.

<scribe> ACTION: Prasad to raise and issue by next week on splitting namespaces across specs and it's effects on versioning strategies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/11-ws-addr-minutes.html#action03]

Other Business

Chair: Anything we need to deal with from Async?

Glen: Ongoing discussion about what happens at the various layers.
... Some discussion about how to think about what flows upwards from transport and downward from application.
... Such as faults.
... We could discuss that but we don't really have clear questions to bring back to the group at large.
... We're trying to see whether there is something fundamental we're not closing on or if it's just different viewpoints.

Chair: AOB?
... I'll get revised agenda out in the next day or two. See you in Sunnyvale!

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Jonathan to draft a sample RDDL doc to further the proposal. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/11-ws-addr-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Chair to raise an issues checking that we've looked at knobs for each property in WSDL. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/11-ws-addr-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Prasad to raise and issue by next week on splitting namespaces across specs and it's effects on versioning strategies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/11-ws-addr-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2005/04/11 23:28:26 $