See also: IRC log
<scribe> Scribe: anthony
JS: What we want to do basically
.... there are acid tests out there
.... that test a variety of specs
.... there are some in the acid 3 that cover outlaying functionality in browers
.... we were thinking of having torture tests where we go through and test
.... some of the requirements
.... I started this in my own time
.... but I'm going to need more help doing it
.... hoping that someone can contribute
.... not sure how public we should make this
DP: can you describe the result of the work?
JS: The acid tests are basically one document you navigate to
.... the result is shown as whether you pass or fail
.... we could have layers
.... so that the first is SVG Tiny 1.2 features
.... the test would include a variety of spec points
.... in one file
.... that's what I started with
.... (smiley face)
.... but we'd be looking for more input
Bruce: I don't know if we can go down the line of acid tests
.... one thing I've run into and do works around is coordinate systems
.... I thought it would be more along the lines of a sequence of tests
.... similar to what Jeff has on his page
JS: I think there is value in the marketing of these tests
.... where you can go to one page and see the result
RR: A torture that includes the coordinate range
.... and give a reason for the result
.... if you look at the way people reacted to the acid tests it raised races between the browsers
JS: The idea is definitely gets the browser vendors going
.... I think it's still very much a working progress
DS: I've seen what you've got
JS: So this has a HTML framing document
.... there are at least 4 ways to include SVG in HTML
.... this HTML tests all 4 ways
.... big disclaimer don't know if these tests are correct
.... if you click on the link it gives a reference rendering
.... This is about 10% done
.... there are comments about it
DS: I think that's pretty funny the idea of doing the teeth
.... the smile could be a clip path
JS: If someone can write the test, that would be even better
DS: Can we use this as a starting point?
JS: Sure
DS: Two other things, you have embed, iframe, and image
JS: Opera shows all 4
.... FF doesn't
DS: Very different in Opera
.... I think also having an inline one there
.... even though it's not spec-ed out
JS: I had thought of that
.... it's just a lot easier to reference it as an external file
.... any comments or questions?
DS: questions about tests
.... Bruce that file you showed do browsers have a problem with that?
Bruce: almost all browsers have problems with it
.... with the first one
.... the second one almost all of them can handle the second one
.... if you look at the first one FF struggles with it as does Adobe
.... Renesis handles it
DS: Would you mind submitting those as tests for the interest group?
Bruce: Sure
.... my image is you have a cross hair that was say red
.... then you have lines under it
.... to test how the implementations handle the coordinates
.... [explains workaround of test]
DS: The goal of an acid test is to get interoperability
.... so what happens when you don't have that
.... but a work around
.... so there are actually two different goals here
.... so that later is something we can do on the community page
.... e.g. here are the problems
.... here are the work arounds
.... so we have the list of tests on the wiki page
.... and for tests that have work arounds we provide the info
Bruce: So we can say there might be a better way to work around things
DS: We can start brain storming this on the SVG IG wiki
.... so Bruce if you can start something like that
.... maybe we could start pages
.... and if you can send me the cross hair test
Bruce: I'll see if I can work something up
JS: Rob and I spent sometime hacking this
.... hopefully with the new version of inkscape it will encourage authors to
.... set titles etc
DS: If you can keep posting bugs to the list that'd be great
JS: So quickly about accessibility
.... that's a list of bugs
.... other than that
.... is it
.... One thing I was thinking about is you can download the entire clip art library to your machine
.... was wondering if we could programatically titles to the files
.... I think JC did a study and said very few of those files had titles
.... I'd have to do a scan to see how many files contain meta data title
DS: So you suspect that alot of files have titles just not title elements
JS: I think the first thing is to scan the files to see if they have a title in the metadata
DS: If you could easily write a bot to do this, to download it
.... change it a bit
.... and resubmit it
.... we should contact them
.... and talk to them about best practices
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to contact Media Wiki to discuss best practices and possibly automating download and upload of files [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-svgig-irc]
JS: The first effort will be to have the tools to add the title element
.... then get it adopted to display it
.... the desc element is not visible unless you turn off images
DS: Here is another example of an SVG image in Media Wiki
.... if you look at it
.... it does have a title
.... and if you look it has that as the id of the SVG element
.... I'm just wondering if you check the id
.... of the SVG element
.... so you could look at the file and strip out dashes and underscores
RR: Open clipart has a similar situation
.... I think the same approach can be taken on the whole thing
.... not sure if you can automate the whole thing
JS: has to be well tested
DS: So my idea is you start with the DC title then, file name then, id of SVG root
.... and this is first pass right
.... we could talk to people on media wiki or wikipedia to mark up the SVG
.... the same way the mark up the articles themselves
RR: There are people who write bots for media wiki
.... so if you can appeal to them that'd be great
JS: So I think we'll soon be wrapping up with Inkscape hacking
DS: One of the things that helps the SVG WG
.... to keep track of all things that they are trying to do
.... is have a bug tracking, issue tracking software
.... called tracker
.... when I'm issued an action it will automatically put into a Bugzilla type tracking system
.... you can then go to a page and get a summary of what you've been assigned
.... and the status
.... you can also select items in the conference
.... if you're willing to take work on it will help track the actions
.... e.g. if we want to track actions for Dave's book they can all be put in one place
.... instead of email
.... hopefully that will be in place in the next few days
.... I'll put my actions from this telcon
.... into that page
.... since we are actually doing stuff
JS: Last time we got something up and running
RR: I did the open ID module
.... it's kind of quirky
.... will probably have to wait for a better version of it to come out
.... also turned out path module
.... so there are clean URLs
.... I haven't turned on tasks yet
.... we'll have to do that soon
.... turned on RSS module on
.... seems like it's working
.... you can see the lastest news items
JS: Did some testing
.... I approved some news items
.... they eventually came up on the page
RR: We are still basically a default thing
.... if anyone has ideas of what it's suppose to look like
.... in terms of themes
.... but it'd probably go a lot faster if someone has an idea
DS: Sounds like you've both done a lot of work
.... Is this stuff something you could have on the SVG IG mailing list
JS: wouldn't want to start putting URLs in the mail
.... start getting crawled by search engines
RR: could use the IRC channel
DS: Currently the IRC channel is not getting archived
RR: Doesn't matter
.... it's more public
.... but people can participate
DS: If I see traffic on the IG
.... I'll probably chime in
RR: The more public it is the more people get involved
.... I'd prefer IRC because it's a lot faster
DS: SUre
.... I can ask the systems team about logging it
.... if you don't mind
RR: Fine with me
DS: Have you looked at the DocuWiki
RR: One I was thinking of was Wikilinks
.... allows you to scribe the links similar to a wiki
.... there's another one called BBcode
.... I'll look into a few of them
.... and get a summary if nothing else
DS: Are you intending on putting a wiki proper?
RR: Running multiple things is you have problems with user log ins and profiles
.... and linking between them
.... I think Druple is capable of doing what we want
.... but if someone comes up with a reason to wiki we can probably put it in
.... when I hear wiki I think easy markup and easy linking and history
.... that exists in Druple but with a different interface
.... you can do WYSIWYG
DS: The biggest thing for me in a wiki is it is collective editing
RR: Druple is getting alot more AJAX feel to the interface
.... so it's not as clunky
.... we'll take it for a test run
.... I have a book set up there
.... one called "best practices"
DS: Wiki doesn't really have any structure
RR: Druple allows you to make a structure
.... with the book module can make pages
.... right now is a great time for people to get on there and test it out
AG: Will tutorials be posted there at some point?
JS: Yes, at some point tutorials will be posted there
JS: I haven't had time to read it yet
.... wanted to see what the status was
.... see if I could get someone signed up to read bits
.... Dave did you get a chance to send the form yet?
DP: Yes
DS: Dave have you done anything with the book?
DP: Nope
DS: Dave can you please send an email to the group asking for feedback on the book
DP: Sure
DS: Rather than everyone read the whole book
.... might be good for several of us to take chapters to review
.... like any book you might have to skip forward or backwards to get context
JS: SVG Open
DD: I'll be there
Bruce: I'll be there
DS: I'll be there
.... there isn't many of us
.... we could announce a meeting at the time
.... and arrange a meeting over dinner
.... are you all going to be there the whole time
Bruce: yes
DS: We can talk about it on the list
.... don't know what the schedule is like
.... but perhaps after the second day
.... are you both presenting?
Bruce: Wed
DD: I have something Fri and Thur
JS: We can get some chatter going on the mailing list
DS: I'll be sending regrets because I'll be at the Open
JS: I guess we can have a quick call with status update
.... So basically I've been logging on and approving any stories I think are interesting
.... but anyone with an admin account can do that