W3C

W3C SML Teleconference of 2008-03-13

13 Mar 2008

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Julia, Pratul, Kirk, Sandy, Ginny, Kumar
Regrets
Zulah_Eckert, James_Lynn, John_Arwe, Jordan_Boucher, MSM
Chair
Pratul Dublish
Scribe
Sandy Gao

Contents


Approval of minutes from previous meeting

2008-03-06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Mar/att-0048/20080306-sml-minutes.html

RESOLUTION: the 2008-03-06 minutes at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Mar/att-0048/20080306-sml-minutes.html are approved.

5523 Discuss the behavior of GET on URI

Kumar has a proposal in comment #2.

No questions or concerns from WG members present.

5525 Confusing section names

No questions or concerns from WG members present on the proposal in comment #2.

5526 What does "nested to any depth" mean?

Kumar: this is related to 5564 recursive definition of DerefExpr should be restored

Pratul: need to talk to MSM and John about whether the change suggested in 5564 forces us back to LC.

WG OK with change suggested in comment #2 of 5526.

5564 recursive definition of DerefExpr should be restored

RESOLUTION: WG approves change suggested in comment #1. Mark as editorial.

5341 EPR Reference Scheme Note

Ginny: need more time to review.

Pratul: put this on next week's agenda.

5283 "interchange set" or "interchange model"

Pratul: the term "interchange set validation" would also be affected.
... we had earlier discussion between "interchange set validation" and "SML-IF model validation". We chose "interchange set validation". Does that mean we prefer "set" over "model"?

Ginny: I like the recommendation to use "interchange model".
... this is different from calling it "SML-IF model".

Pratul: that would change "interchange set validation" to "interchange model validation".

Sandy: prefer "model" too, since we define "model" as "a set of documents".

Kumar: "interchange model validation" is not exactly the same as "SML model validation".

Kirk: right. "interchange set validation" includes "SML model validation".

Sandy: "interchange set validation" is a special invocation of "SML model validation", hence they should use the same term "model".

Kumar: I think the "interchange set" should include both the "model" and meta-data.

Kirk: I think "interchange set" only includes the documents. the meta-data is part of the IF document, not the interchange set.

Pratul: reading the definition of "interchange set". finding it somewhat confusing.

Kumar: again, maybe "interchange set" should include both the "model" and meta-data. IF is just the encoding format.

<pratul> This is what the spec says today

<pratul> The interchange set is the set of documents that constitute the SML model [SML 1.1] to be interchanged.

<pratul> Interchange set validation is the process of assessing the validity of the SML model [SML 1.1] represented by the interchange set while maintaining all assertions and interrelationships among the documents in the interchange set as defined by this specification.

Sandy: Kumar's suggestion is interesting to exploit. Feel that "set" should be used to refer to the "set of the documents"; "model" could be used to refer to more than the documents. That is, we may want to switch their places.

Kumar: different intuition. "model" is defined by SML. Want to use "set" for what's included in IF document.
... let's discuss offline, among the interested parties, and come back with a proposal.

<scribe> ACTION: Kumar to discuss 5283 with interested parties, and come back with a proposal. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-sml-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-176 - Discuss 5283 with interested parties, and come back with a proposal. [on Kumar Pandit - due 2008-03-20].

5390 How to handle non-embedded documents referenced by EPRs in SML-IF

Kirk: part of 5341. suggest to hold it off until we discuss EPR note.

Pratul: should it be a duplicate of 5341?

Kirk: should keep it separate.

5522 The term "containing element" is not clear

Kumar: already fixed in LC draft.

Pratul: put a comment in the bug explaining the current situation in LC.
... maybe we want to have a new keyword for issues that are waiting for the commentator to respond.

Ginny: the keyword "decided" seems what we need.

Pratul: change bugs in this category to use keyword "decided".

5528 xs:import for SML namespace is unnecessary

RESOLUTION: adopt the suggestion in 5528 to remove the xs:import.

5529 Clarify Appendix C

Pratul: (clarify Henry's comment) the schema document in C has no SML reference constraint, which means having sml references (or not) in the instance doesn't affect model/document validity.

Kumar: if the model only contains these documents, then Henry is correct.

Pratul: look at comment #1. even when there is no reference constraint, there are still things that needs to be checked for references. these may affect model validity too.

Kumar: what's in C is not wrong. we may want to add a note to address his concern.

Sandy: do we have examples in Appendices that show how target* constraints work?

Pratul: may want to open a separate issue for it.

RESOLUTION: mark 5529 editorial. Fix it in the spirit of comment #1. WG needs to review the proposal.

5530 Use consistent form for MIT URI

Kumar: suspect Henry's referring to an earlier draft, because of the mention of xmlns().
... suggest to add a comment asking for clarification from Henry.

5532 The previous-draft links are out of date

Pratul: suggest editors' draft should point to the current version; editors define a checklist internally, requiring that the drafts be updated to point to the correct "previous version" before publication. (basically MSM's points 1 & 2.)

All: agree.

RESOLUTION: mark 5532 editorial, by adopting MSM's suggestions in the bug report.

5541 Why is schema-less identification of reference elements important?

Sandy: I think we discussed whether to honor schema defaulted sml:ref before and decided to allow that to be implementation dependent or configurable in processors. this should address Henry's concern, at least in the core spec.

Kumar: also remember that discussion from one of the F2F meetings. can't find the corresponding text.

Pratul: I think the main scenario where you want to use schema defaulted sml:ref is when you receive an IF document.

Sandy: suggest to update section 4.1.1, to allow both the original infoset and the PSVI to be used for reference recognition.
... the current paragraph starting with 'this mechanism" becomes a reason for why allowing to look at the original infoset could be useful. we could add another sentence to explain why using PSVI could be useful: to use default sml:ref=true.

Pratul: sounds reasonable. there are scenarios for both schema-less recognition, and schema-defaulted recognition.

Ginny: that means it can be done in either way?

Kumar: should it be "use schema default if performing validation, otherwise either way"?

Ginny: given that SML only defines validator behavior, do we need to be worried about the schema-less scenario?

<pratul> Schemaless identification of references was driven by scenarios that required references to be quickly identified

<pratul> when models were being exchanged, stored, or retrieved and these operations required references to be transformed

Pratul: explains why schema-less identification is useful. see Pratul's comment above.

Ginny: so this is convenience; it doesn't affect validation.

<scribe> ACTION: Sandy to work on a proposal to address bug 5541. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-sml-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-177 - Work on a proposal to address bug 5541. [on Sandy Gao - due 2008-03-20].

5542 How are SML URIs absolutized

Sandy: I think we intentionally left this open. processors may choose to use xml:base attribute, or other ways to establish the base. SML doesn't specify a fixed behavior.
... we answer this question in IF.

Pratul: the only thing we talk about is when you have a fragment, then it's pointing to the same document.

Ginny: then anything we need to do for this bug?

Sandy: it may help to have an explicit statement about the impl-dependent nature of base uri.

Ginny: we already have it. in section 4.3.1, bullet 2.a.

Sandy: section 4.3, bullet 3.b is the general requirement for schemes using target-complete identifiers; section 4.3.1, bullet 2.a is how the URI scheme is handled.

RESOLUTION: resolve 5542 as invalid. see sections 4.3 and 4.3.1.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Kumar to discuss 5283 with interested parties, and come back with a proposal. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-sml-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Sandy to work on a proposal to address bug 5541. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-sml-minutes.html#action02]

Updated Scribe List

Last Scribe Date  Member Name               Regrets pending
2007-08-30        Lipton, Paul              until mid-January 2008
2008-01-22        Wilson, Kirk
2008-01-22        Eckert, Zulah
2008-01-23        Smith, Virginia
2008-02-07        Lynn, James
2008-02-14        McCarthy, Julia
2008-02-21        Kumar, Pandit
2008-03-06        Boucher, Jordan
2008-03-13        Gao, Sandy
Exempt            Arwe, John
Exempt            Dublish, Pratul
Exempt            MSM
Exempt            PH
  
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