See also: IRC log
<ChrisW> Scribe: AdrianPaschke
<ChrisW> scribenick: AdrianP
ChrisW: no minutes from last week
<ChrisW> *Summer time*: North America will move to summer time on March 14, Europe
<ChrisW> on March 28
<ChrisW> => Telecons March 16 and 23 will be one
<ChrisW> hour early in Europe!
ChrisW: next weeks telecon for European it will be an hour earlier
<Harold> Axel?
<sandro> AxelPolleres, can you call in today?
Sandro: no news from SPARQL
<ChrisW> action-986 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-986 Bring up http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_2 with Jos closed
<LeoraMorgenstern> I'll send my minutes end of the week. (just got your email, Chris.)
action-985 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-985 Get Jos to add changelog for SWC closed
action-981 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-981 Send response to Ian Horrocks closed
<josb> +q
<ChrisW> ACTION: josb to fix and respond to editorial changes in swc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-987 - Fix and respond to editorial changes in swc [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-03-16].
action-984 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-984 Update change log for BLD, coordinating with Harold. closed
<csma> > The definition of the 'Const' element in [2] refers to the 'xml:lang'
<csma> > attribute.
<csma> > Is this attribute for the reader's information only, or does it affect the
<csma> > back transformation from XML syntax to presentation syntax?
<csma> > If so, which of the following XML fragments are valid and what are their
<csma> > back transformations?
<csma> > <Const type="&rdf;PlainLiteral" xml:lang="en">abc</Const>
<csma> > <Const type="&rdf;PlainLiteral" xml:lang="en">abc@</Const>
<csma> > <Const type="&rdf;PlainLiteral" xml:lang="en">abc@de</Const>
<ChrisW> "abc"@en^^rdf:plainLiteral
<ChrisW> "abc@"@en^^rdf:plainLiteral
<ChrisW> "abc@de"@en^^rdf:plainLiteral
<josb> "abc@de@en"^^rdf:plainLiteral
Jos: sure that this is the right presentation syntax?
<DaveReynolds> Sorry, got cut off. DTB does define @ shortcut
<Harold> Currently: Const ::= '"' UNICODESTRING '"^^' SYMSPACE | CONSTSHORT
Christian: is it ambigious?
<josb> "abc@de"@en
<DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/DTB#Shortcuts_for_Constants_in_RIF.27s_Presentation_Syntax
Dave: in DTB 2.2.2 there is shortcut syntax
<josb> as defined by DTB, "abc@de"@en is shortcut for "abc@de@en"^^rdf:plainLiteral
<Harold> CONSTSHORT ::= ... | '"' UNICODESTRING '"' '@' langtag
<ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Response_to_AR4
Harold: action-938 is related to
the current discussion
... have a comment near by the grammar and syntax
ChrisW: let's just add a comment about it
<scribe> ACTION: Harold to add note to BLD, Core about plain literals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-988 - Add note to BLD, Core about plain literals [on Harold Boley - due 2010-03-16].
<csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Features_At_Risk
Sandro: we where concerned if it
can be implemented
... - think we can do it
<ChrisW> *PROPOSED:* keep the 1-to-1 lists (feature at risk)
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep the 1-to-1 lists (feature at risk)
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep the 1-to-1 lists, removing it from at-risk features for PR
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep the 1-to-1 lists in SWC, removing it from at-risk features for PR
<ChrisW> +1
<DaveReynolds> +1
<josb> +1
<Harold> +1
<MichaelKifer> +1
+1
<sandro> +1
<ChrisW> RESOLVED: keep the 1-to-1 lists in SWC, removing it from at-risk features for PR
ChrisW: next equality in the head
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#Formulas
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep equality in rule conclusions for BLD, removing it from at-risk features for PR
<Harold> +1
<ChrisW> +1
<DaveReynolds> 0
<josb> +1
+1
<sandro> +0 i like it but slightly worried about implementation burden
Christian: Did the implementers implement it?
<ChrisW> RESOLVED: keep equality in rule conclusions for BLD, removing it from at-risk features for PR
ChrisW: at least in the reports they did not say "they don't"
<csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#Conformance_Clauses
Christian: Do not know the scope of the feature? If it is only about strictness no problem to remove it
Jos: strictness is a limitation the definition of conformance for consumer and producer. They only need to support the datatypes in DTB
Harold: could use can
<Harold> Michael?
<Harold> With 'can' we could stress that both modes are equally conformant.
<Harold> Do we have any comment about that "At Risk" from implementers?
Sandro: may sentence needs further clarification
<josb> HTML existed before XML
csma: add a comment about extensions for conformant producers
<josb> I don't say it forbids extensions
<josb> indeed, you are no longer conformant if you support extensions
Sandro: would like to a "in strict mode" to make clear that extension are not forbidden in general
<Gary> why not drop the requirement and change "A conformant RIF-BLD consumer must reject all inputs that do not match the syntax of BLD." to "A conformant RIF-BLD consumer must accept all inputs that match the syntax of BLD.
<csma> +1
<josb> I would abstain as well
<MichaelKifer> I'd abstain, although I think it is not a good restriction
<josb> (prefer non-strictness, as I was also arguing in Galway)
<josb> I would
<Harold> What about: -- having modes for strict BLD and for BLD running with extensions.
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep the DL-safeness restriction (feature at risk)
<josb> +1
<DaveReynolds> +1
<Harold> +1
+1
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep dl-stafeness restriction in SWC, removing it from at-risk features for PR
<ChrisW> +1
<ChrisW> RESOLVED: keep dl-stafeness restriction in SWC, removing it from at-risk features for PR
ChrisW: removing at risk features
should be recorded in the change lock
... Indexing from zero
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep keep indexing lists from zero in DTB, removing it from at-risk features for PR
<ChrisW> +1
<josb> +1
+1
<DaveReynolds> +0 (number from 0 is right but having both conventions in one spec is confusing)
<Harold> +1
<Gary> +1
<ChrisW> RESOLVED: keep keep indexing lists from zero in DTB, removing it from at-risk features for PR
ChrisW: return to the strictness
at risk feature
... extension request
... we need to be at least the implementations finished
... need to put more pressure on the implementers
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: extend 5 minutes
<csma> +1
ChrisW: DTB needs
implementation
... implementer at CTTIT left
... need to activate the community
<Gary> I have datetime, lists, numerics, and string builtin tests working
ChrisW: list for each implementation which datatypes and built-ins are supported by them
<ChrisW> ACTION: mkifer contact mdean for list of datatypes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-989 - Contact mdean for list of datatypes [on Michael Kifer - due 2010-03-16].
<Harold> Sandro and Chris, you mentioned a few weeks ago that you are in contact with Jos de Roo about his Euler Eye implementation of DTB?
<scribe> ACTION: Michael to contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Michael
<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. msintek, mkifer, merdmann)
<sandro> PROPOSED: We'll ask for a 6 month extension, contingent on WG requesting PR by the end March. Should proceed to Rec in May; WG intends to work on tutorial, test cases, and several Notes during these 6 months.
<scribe> ACTION: MichaelKifer to contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - MichaelKifer
<scribe> ACTION: kifer to contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-990 - Contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [on Michael Kifer - due 2010-03-16].
<Harold> +1
<ChrisW> +1 to extension
+1
<sandro> RESOLVED: We'll ask for a 6 month extension, contingent on WG requesting PR by the end March. Should proceed to Rec in May; WG intends to work on tutorial, test cases, and several Notes during these 6 months.
<Gary> +1
<MichaelKifer> +1
<ChrisW> ACTION: sandro to contact chime about DTB support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-991 - Contact chime about DTB support [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-03-16].
<ChrisW> ACTION: csma to contact changhai about DTB support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-992 - Contact changhai about DTB support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-03-16].
<ChrisW> ACTION: csma to contact jderoo about DTB support or get from implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action09]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-993 - Contact jderoo about DTB support or get from implementation report [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-03-16].
<ChrisW> adjourned
<josb> bye
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/last week/end of the week/ Succeeded: s/MAY/can/ Found Scribe: AdrianPaschke Found ScribeNick: AdrianP Default Present: AdrianP, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, Harold, Sandro, +49.08.aaaa, josb, csma, Gary, DaveReynolds, MichaelKifer Present: AdrianP Hassan_Ait-Kaci ChrisW Harold Sandro +49.08.aaaa josb csma Gary DaveReynolds MichaelKifer Regrets: StellaMitchell LeoraMorgenstern Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Mar/0021.html Got date from IRC log name: 09 Mar 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html People with action items: csma harold josb kifer michael michaelkifer mkifer sandro WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]