<AxelPolleres> moment... dialing

discussion re #/##

Gary: needs to be known at translation time the class of every object
... or allow anywhere but have some compliance exception for PRD

Michael: Patrick wanted to restrict to creation but that can't be done within CORE

Dave: could we leave it as currently resolved and cover data models in a future extension?

Gary: but then it makes little sense to have # at all, because we then can't define it. Better to have externally defined.

Chrisw: It means the class memberships are not defined in rules but defined in some out of band object system and # is just a way to test that in rules.

Gary: so should # be wrapped in an External wrapper?

Dave: two clean options (a) unrestricted, (b) drop completely for FPWD

Gary: re: b but many production systems require membership in patterns and so no PR rule would be a core rule.
... would rather leave it in unrestricted.
... to be discussed in PRD telecon

<scribe> ScribeNick: DaveReynolds

Gary: PRD has special syntax for object creation which is where # can be asserted in PRD.

Chris: so does a # in a fact in Core correspond to an object creation?

Gary: hopes that if allow # in facts in Core then static analysis can capture duplicate assertions and trap attempts to reassign membership at translation time
... is we restrict to facts and conditions is that OK for core?

Michael: yes

Harold: c.f. abox in OWL

Dave: what about subclass, is that needed?

Gary: yes, to represent e.g. complex type hierarchy in XML Schema

<Harold> Using #facts to define class membership is a good match for Aboxes in OWL DL.

Chris: what was the issue csma raised with pattern matching?

Michael: only diff between unification and matching, when no function symbols, there is no difference unless there are variables in facts and safenessrules that out

Gary: isn't about external functions in conclusions? Not unification but about the need to rewrite a rule to handle builtins.

<Harold> Gary, do you mean something like unifying +(2,3) with 5?

<Harold> So, not just syntactic unifcication?

<Gary> P(x) :- P(x - 1) vs. P(x + 1) :- P(x)

Dave: what if restrict builtin fns to just equality?

<AxelPolleres> not sure, whether that was what christian meant.

<AxelPolleres> +1 to discuss that with christian tomorrow again.

Need clarification from Christian on what he meant

Dave: raise in plenary tomorrow?

<Harold> +1 (even in the plenary)

Michael: issues (a) #/## (b) external functions (c) shorten compliance section (d) EBNF needs fixing

<scribe> ACTION: dave update EBNF to match BLD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/17-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-655 - Update EBNF to match BLD [on Dave Reynolds - due 2008-11-24].

<AxelPolleres> We still have "safety" in some places, don't we?

<Harold> Yes, should be changed.

<Harold> Is it realistic to have a freezable version before next Monday?

Michael: can look at compliance section to see how to reformulate

Possibles topics for plenary: (i) #/## new restrictions (ii) Christian pattern match

Sorry - have to go

<AxelPolleres> shall we adjourn?

<Harold> PRD colleagues, could you pleas briefly bring up if http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Core#Intersection_of_RIF-PRD_and_RIF-BLD is fine for the FPWD of Core?

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
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Succeeded: s/ree/re/
Succeeded: s/#,/ #/
Succeeded: s/safety /safeness/
Found ScribeNick: DaveReynolds
Inferring Scribes: DaveReynolds

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Got date from IRC log name: 17 Nov 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/17-rif-minutes.html
People with action items: dave ebnf update

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