Admin

<ChrisW> action-224 continued

ACTION 224 Add adrian to the tracker and give him the UCR review action due: Feb 23 [CONTINUED]

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Approved minutes of Feb 13 telecon

csma: minutes from last time approved.

F2F

csma: no agenda amendments.
... action review.

ACTION 229 Send email to ask who plans to attend F2F5 remotely [DONE]

allen: detailed venue information now available on the wiki.

<rifbot> Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/

allen: please all register! if you haven't yet reigstered for F2F, mail allen!

Liasson

<PaulVincent> PRR: no news

<johnhall> no change for SBVR

Paul: no news from PRR and SBVR

Said: reports on XBRL.

csma: a report from Said on XBRL could be interesting in the demo part of f2f.

<PaulVincent> XBRL report: good idea

csma: as an exmple of an industry vocabulary that could be bound to RIF.

said/csma will resolve this offline.

<ChrisW> ACTION: Christian to organize XBRL discussion with Said [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/20-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<rifbot> Created ACTION-230 - Organize XBRL discussion with Said [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2007-02-27].

technical design

ACTION 225 Move the MOF diagrams to the relevant syntax subsections [DONE]

ACTION 226 Add some text in the syntax subsections to explain the mapping between BNF and MOF diagrams [DONE]

csma: review comments to technical design from various people.
... which ones can be easily resolved, which ones require discussion at f2f?
... When will we have a frozen version of Core for the f2f?
... Let's start wih jos' review.

<josb> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0027.html

<Harold> Diff of Positive Conditions since last Tuesday: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/Positive_Conditions?action=diff&rev2=82&rev1=30

<Harold> Diff of Horn Rules since last Tuesday: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/Horn_Rules?action=diff&rev2=26&rev1=17

csma: Jos review suggests more separation between discussion part and spec.

harold: separation is now clearer by color codes.

Is the color coding explained in the Document????

csma: Jos suggested the introduction to be refined.

harold: done.

csma: Jos claime that the connection with the web is not really there yet.

<josb> I agreed with Michael that the connection to the web should probably be in some architecture document

harold: apart from sorts, webizing still to be done.

csma: Further webizing will be stalled for after WD1.
... any objections?

RESOLUTION: webizing will be stalled for after WD1.

<Harold> The Overview already prominently mentions that more webizing will be done later.

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: webizing the RIF CORE will not be part of first WD

<Harold> Currently: sorts.

<josb> it should be stated, though, that it will be addressed in the next version

csma: Let's move to the discussion items in jos review.
... "1- core syntax: allowing disjunction in the conditions" propose to discuss this in f2f.

jos: this had already been discussed in the WG.

<ChrisW> ACTION: Christian to check whether "1- core syntax: allowing disjunction in the conditions" is already resolved [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/20-rif-minutes.html#action03]

<rifbot> Created ACTION-231 - Check whether \"1- core syntax: allowing disjunction in the conditions\" is already resolved [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2007-02-27].

csma: "2- the document seems to commit to four RIF dialects"

csma: seems this needs to be modified/weakened.

<ChrisW> ACTION: harold to modify WD so that there are no committments to specific dialects [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/20-rif-minutes.html#action04]

<rifbot> Created ACTION-232 - Modify WD so that there are no committments to specific dialects [on Harold Boley - due 2007-02-27].

csma: "3- core syntax: I am not sure what the merit is of [...] anonymous variable"

harold: marked this green in the document, anonymous variables will be discussed during F2F.

csma: "4- syntax: [...] URIs more prominent"
... this is another facet of the resolution we had before.

jos: it seems it is already partly sorted out with the _uri sort.

<josb> +1

csma: "5- syntax: [...] semantic web [...]"
... this seems also be part of the webizing discussion.

Dave: seems to be worthwhile discussing at F2F.

csma: we will discuss OWL and RDF compatiblity at f2f.

<Harold> "hello world"^^xsd:string was in a draft before, but for LL(k) parsability was syntactically rewritten as _xsd:string"hello world".

csma: main objective of f2f will be finalizing WD1. Any discussions of further webizing will not be the focus.

Dave: seems some webizing is in for wd1, other no.

csma: anything which we can tidy up for WD1 is ok to be discussed in F2F.

<ChrisW> Clarification of Resolution on Webizing: We will include discussion on "cleaning up" the current WD wrt what it already says about "webizing"

<Harold> Mike, webizing was in a draft before (http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/A.1.1_Basis%3A_Positive_Conditions_over_Bipartitioned_Constants), but was then handled via sorts.

<Harold> E.g. <Ind iri="http://www.w3.org"/>

csma: next comment "XML datatypes"

harold: done.

<agiurca> Why xs:anyURI si not there too?

csma: "6- section 1: it is not entirely clear to me what is meant with a 'fragment' of a dialect. "

jos: not necessarily all comments need to be discussed here.

csma: we want this all agreed before WD1.

<Harold> Maybe "fragment" is relative to a larger language, whereas "dialect" is neutral wrt specializing or generalizing another language, so I would prefer this more broad term.

csma: "6- section 1: dialect vs. fragment" could be resolved at f2f.

<josb> I agree with Harold's proposal for the terminology

<Harold> Will do as time permits.

csma: "6- section 1: dialect vs. fragment": fragment will be replaced globally by dialect, not further to be discussed.
... Next comment: "7- section 1.1: from the introduction it is not really clear which data types"

<sandro> (a little research suggests global-search-replace is very rare in wikis, and absent in moinmoin. Only one wiki on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software has it.)

<sandro> (conceicably wiki-tr could help with that. Hrm.)

harold: resolved. 5 datatypes supported.

csma: "8- section 1.1: introduction: reference here to features in future dialects"

harold: resolved.

csma: "9- section 1.1, syntax"

harold: resolved.

csma: "10- section 1.1: the scoping rules"

harold: resolved.

csma: "11- section 1.1: XML syntax"
... done. XML lableled illustrative only

<josb> if it is for illustrative purposes only, then it can be kept there

csma: "12- section 1.1, semantic structures"

<scribe> ...postponed to WD2.

harold: comments 12-15 have been agreed/handled already.
... also all comments until 22 have been resolved.

csma: can you comment on 22 "intended models of rules"?

harold: michael will maybe handle it by friday.

<Harold> Michael?

csma: michael, can "22 intended models of rules" be handled before f2f?
... further (editorial) comments should have been taken into account.

<ChrisW> Michael, are you reading the irc?

harold: some font issues, there may be still inconsistencies, which cannot be resolved in the wiki version, but comments 23-31 are taken into account.

(michael k. joining the meeting on the phone)

csma: michael, can "22 intended models of rules" be handled before f2f?
... jos said this section should be removed for WD1.

<AllenGinsberg> +1 different color

michael: decision was to put it in different color. will be done for frozen version until friday.

csma: move to comments from allen.

harold: all comments of allen resolved.

chrisw: back to anon vars comment from jos?

csma: anon vars will be discussed at f2f.

csma: back to allen's comments. Suggestion to all to pick up allen's practice for reviews to suggest replacement text when reviewing.
... let's move to mike dean's review.

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0038.html

<Hassan> NB: "to explicate" means "to make explicit" - not "to explain"

csma: most of mike's comments are typographic/english.

harold: have been resolved.

csma: "It seems premature to give examples and a DTD for RIF Horn Rules"

harold: moved to appendix.

<Harold> CamelCase

csma: "RDF would be a more appropriate camelcase analogue than Java"

mike: think that rdf is a more direct analogue than java here.

harold: will be resolved to WD1 frozen version.

csma: "Why not use sort rather than type as the attribute name"

harold: the term "sort" is overloaded.

hassan: so is "type", type is misleading here.

(resolution?)

<AllenGinsberg> You could use "SORTAL"

harold: will be implemented in frozen wd1.

csma: "It seems a bit odd to modify the semantic structures introduced only a few"
... "screens back, as if multisorted RIF was an afterthought."

MichaelKifer: Should we introduce multisorted RIF right away?

csma: I think so.

ChrisW: suggest to keep this for WD2.
... will keep track of this.

csma: "I'm concerned that this section tries to cover too much material, ..."

<Harold> Axel, the Condition Language is a common foundation, so is a bit large.

harold: the Condition Language part is a common foundation, so is a bit large, but will be kept like that for WD1.

csma: other comments are on XML syntax and will go to WD2.
... there will be a session on asn06/XML in f2f, but not relevant for WD1.
... my comment on the structure of the document

Harold: overview now clarified.

<Harold> No (more) major structural changes are possible.

csma: next comments from Adrian.

<DaveReynolds> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/att-0063/00-part

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0063.html

csma: the comments are in the attachment of that email:
... # A Datatypes section is desirable. This section will explain which datatypes are allowed and describe them.

# A specific Validation section which includes all kind of validation issues i.e. DTD validation, XML Schema validation, MOF validation.

... should both be discussed for WD2/

csma: whether or not to include DTD to be discussed at f2f.

adrian: rename section "model" to "abstract syntax""

harold: this is confusing.

csma: again: metamodel vs. abstract syntax to be discussed in f2f2.

adrian/harold: now discuss about striped- syntax, etc.

csma: harold, please make clear the reference for striped-syntax in frozen document. we will then discuss it at f2f.

harold: will color-code the "striped" passage in green.

csma: multiplicity should maybe also discussed. MOF diagram should be discussed as well.
... another comment which came several times: complete names instead of abbreviations for XML tags.
... for reasons of being illustrative.

<Harold> Technical RIF tags should not be identified with natural language meanings.

harold: tags technically shouldn't be the same as natural lang meaning.

csma: discuss that at f2f.

<Harold> Short names remind people of that.

csma: move to phillipe bonnard's comments.

<Deborah_Nichols> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0025.html

harold: will address his comments by friday.

csma: syntax/vocabulary for parts of rules, e.g. ECA rules to be sorted out in f2f.
... comment on slotted syntax is obsolete.
... we have reached the regulatr time and also the end of the reviews.

<AllenGinsberg> +1

<ChrisW> proposed extend meeting by 5 minutse

csma: 5min more for discussing actions for UCR.

<ChrisW> resolved

<AllenGinsberg> done

ACTION 215 Add Conclusion/summary to UCR [DONE]

<josb> Sorry, I have to go. Bye!

<agiurca> Review on Ferbruary 23

(can you tell the action numbers and whether they are done/continued?)

<Harold> Sandro, if you do a wiki-tr update, could you also fix __underlines__ ?

<ChrisW> ACTION: sandro to check duplication problem in UCR draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/20-rif-minutes.html#action05]

<rifbot> Created ACTION-233 - Check duplication problem in UCR draft [on Sandro Hawke - due 2007-02-27].

ACTION 228 start a new wiki page for phase 2 reqs [DONE]

csma: encourage all to check the wiki pager from action 228.

<sandro> I'll try, Harold. (I'm out sick, but will try to find some concentration time.)

<scribe> continued. working ont it!

ACTION 227 Send slides on proposed rifraf ontology [CONTINUED]

csma: AOB... no. Good bye!

<agiurca> -agiurca

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127  of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/registered,/reigstered for F2F,/
Succeeded: s/such a thing/the connection to the web/
Succeeded: s/apaert/apart/
Succeeded: s/takei/taken/
Succeeded: s/forzen/frozen/
Succeeded: s/ACION/ACTION/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: AxelPolleres
Inferring Scribes: AxelPolleres
Default Present: csma, Harold, Dave_Reynolds, agiurca, Leora_Morgenstern, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, josb, AlexKozlenkov, Mike_Dean, Sandro, Axel_Polleres, PaulaP, Allen_Ginsberg, PaulVincent, Gary_Hallmark, +1.203.539.aabb, SaidTabet, johnhall, Deborah_Nichols, +1.775.242.aacc, MichaelKifer
Present: csma Harold Dave_Reynolds agiurca Leora_Morgenstern Hassan_Ait-Kaci ChrisW josb AlexKozlenkov Mike_Dean Sandro Axel_Polleres PaulaP Allen_Ginsberg PaulVincent Gary_Hallmark +1.203.539.aabb SaidTabet johnhall Deborah_Nichols +1.775.242.aacc MichaelKifer
Regrets: IgorMozetic DavidHirtle JeffPan MichaelSintek MarkusKrötzsch
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0070.html
Got date from IRC log name: 20 Feb 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/02/20-rif-minutes.html
People with action items: christian csma harold sandro