See also: IRC log
<ChrisW> Scribe: Stella Mitchell
<ChrisW> scribenick: StellaMitchell
<csma> Ok, I will do action tracking
Chris: Proposed to cancel next week's telcon because chairs and team contact cannot attend. Any objections? (none)
<sandro> (It conflicts with W3C AC meeting)
Chris: Nov 28th telcon is cancelled
Chris: We still need minutes from last week's (Nov 14) telecon
<PaulaP> no, Francois is not here but I can ask him about the minutes
<PaulaP> Francois told me he sent the minutes for the last telecon, but apparently there were some problems in receiving the emails from him
<csma> action-165 continued
<csma> action-171 continued
Paula: I just sent out the minutes from last week (from Francois)
Chris: There is still another week for people to propose f2f5 alternatives (we extended it because we forgot to send email)
Allen: Regarding MITRE proposal, room is reserved for Feb 26-28. Early March is not possible
<ChrisW> Dates proposed: Feb26-28
Chris: There is only one proposal so far for each of f2f5 and f2f6: f2f5 at MITRE in McLean,Virginia US; f2f6: DERI, Innsbruck, Austria
<josb> I put the possible dates for f2f6 in Innsbruck around the ESWC on the wiki
<josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F6
Chris: Correction: there is a 2nd proposal for f2f5: for the last week in Jan, at MIT, Cambridge, MA. So, there will be a poll (but seemed like most people at f2f4 preferred late Feb)
<csma> action-121 done
<csma> action-122 done
<csma> action-183 done
<PaulVincent> PRR: no news
action-152 continued
action-153 done
<Allen> Here is the URL for the email on action 153 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Nov/0009
<csma> action-142 continued
Sandro: I don't think I have time to do action-156
Chris: Are there any volunteers to take over action-156 from Sandro?
Frank: UC5 may not be doable in the core syntax
Sandro: All the UCs will probably involve some extensions
Chris: The point is to see what you can and cannot express with core
Christian: Yes, to help identify needed extensions
<AxelPolleres> +1 to csma for part of the exercises is to write down what is missing in the core and maybe propose what could be added
Frank: : I will take the action-156
<csma> action-156 reassigned to Frank
action-157 continued
action-159 continued
action-160 continued
action-170 continued
action-180 done
action-182 continued
action-184 continued
action-185 done
action-186 continued
action-188 continued
Chris: Btw, most of the minutes from f2f4 are on the f2f4 wiki page; you can read over them to see what happened
Sandro: When do we need to approve them?
Chris: They are not completely finished yet, but the main substance is there. After they are completed, there will be 1 week to approve them
<csma> draft minutes for F2F4, see F2F4 wiki http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F4
Chris:The first main issues for discussion today are the changes to the core
that Harold made in response to the break-out session and resolutions from f2f4
...Harold, would you like to summarize?
Harold: (Harold reviewed the points he made in his two recent emails)
...... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Nov/0082.html
...... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Nov/0085.html
Harold: (Harold clarified two separate but related distinctions: 1. positional vs. slotted arguments 2. Herbrand unification assumed vs. equational constraints explicated.)
<ChrisW> "slots" in this case refers to "keyword arguments" (as opposed to positional)
Harold: #1: applies to both condition language and rules
Harold: #2: the optional constraint can be added to the rule part only, although do we want to consider adding it to condition part also?
Hassan: (Hassan reviewed the points he made in his recent email)
...... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Nov/0084.html
Hassan: I am working on a first draft document elaborating on the CLP and including a formal treatment of how to view data models as constraint systems. It will be ready in about a week.
Hassan: In slides and emails, Harold made a mistake in using the dot "operator" to relate two functions (denoted f); instead it should be used to relate two variables (denoted x).
Christian: But the text on the wiki is correct, isn't it?
Hassan: Yes, on the wiki it is correct.
Hassan: Contraints views of terms and slotted terms are just like RDF. Also, you can have a hybrid syntax with "dot" on term.
Christian: Which is the most general?
Hassan: Constraints
Chris: Is it correct that condition language is a keyword language?
Hassan: It's a convenience to avoid verbose syntax
Chris: Several people requested a more concrete version of this proposal before they could accept it
Alex: I have not had a chance to evaluate the proposal yet
<josb> I withdrew my skepticism, after I finally understood the presentation, after Chris' clarification at the face-to-face
Chris: Are there comments from
anyone else on this proposal?
... please read it because we will have to vote on it soon, in order to produce a 1st WD within the first year.
<csma> +1 to a 1st WD before end of year!!!
<AlexKozlenkov> The Hassan proposal looks good although I would like to see more links to claims about relation to reactivity
<Hassan> hak -> alex: we first concentrate on Horn, then move to other kinds. Proof theory is one way (HHF)
<AlexKozlenkov> alex -> hak: agreed, but you are saying nice things about the basis being there already, which is good but more detils would be nice to have
<Hassan> hak -> alex: point taken - I will provide what I know, and will take it from there
Chris: There were email discussions about extensibility, kicked off by Sandro.
Chris: One of the requirements is that the core language must be extensible. An important part of phase 1 work is to understand the extensibility mechanism
Sandro: We talked about extensibility on last week's telecon - about the question of how you characterize what will go wrong if you ignore part of the syntax that you don't understand
Christian: I just sent an email related to this: we need something more general than "body implies head"
Christian: I don't think we have a resolution on having a common syntax for all dialects.
Chris: Let's take that offline; we can look through the minutes to review what happened re: common syntax for all dialects
<AlexKozlenkov> It would help my action point about extensibility
action-148 continued
action-172 continued
action-173 continued
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action-179 continued
Chris: Any other things to report on RIF-RAF? Leora or Axel?
<AxelPolleres> not at the moment... I start working on it intensively this thu
<LeoraMorgenstern> No, nothing to report on rifraf.
action-38 continued
action-41 done
action-106 done
action-144 continued
Chris: Paul Vincent, can you take a look at the current UCR draft and send your comments to Allen?
Paul: yes
action-169 continued
action-181 continued
<PaulVincent> ACTION-131 was completed and reported on last month...
Chris: Allen, what is the status of the UCR document?
Allen: One of the main things to be done is to limit the requirements that need to be linked to (don't have to link to the general ones). Paula was going to do one as an example.
Paula: I did that this morning - with UC 2
<ChrisW> ACTION: Allen to send email to link use cases to requirements based on Paula's draft of UC2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-rif-minutes.html#action01]
<rifbot> Created ACTION-189 - Send email to link use cases to requirements based on Paula\'s draft of UC2 [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2006-11-28].
Chris: We also need to finish the definition of
"covers."
... Are functional vs. non-functional requirements discussed in the doc?
Allen: yes
Christian: I think it is confusing the way it's written
Chris and Christian: Can the general requirements be listed first?
Allen: OK, I will put the general requirements at the beginning and remove them from the phase sections
<ChrisW> ACTION: allen to move "general" requirements to beginning of section and remove duplicates [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-rif-minutes.html#action02]
<rifbot> Created ACTION-190 - Move \"general\" requirements to beginning of section and remove duplicates [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2006-11-28].
Chris: I will review the break-out
minutes from f2f4 to double check that we haven't forgotten anything regarding the UCR document.
... any other comments on UCR? (none)
<ChrisW> next telecon Dec 5
Chris: Propose to adjourn.
<PaulaP> +1
<Hassan> +1
<FrankMcCabe> happy thanksgiving folks
<PaulaP> bye
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127 of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/126/156/ Succeeded: s/also/also?/ Succeeded: s/terms/constraints/ Succeeded: s/mu/my/ Succeeded: s/action/action/ Succeeded: s/actoin/action/ Succeeded: s/can't here me/can't hear me/ Found Scribe: Stella Mitchell Found ScribeNick: StellaMitchell Default Present: FrankMcCabe, LeoraMorgenstern, josb, Allen_Ginsberg, Mike_Dean, ChrisW, PaulaP, Dave_Reynolds, Sandro, pfps, AlexKozlenkov, StellaMitchell, Mala_Mehrotra, csma, Harold, PaulVincent, DavidHirtle, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Axel_Polleres, +43.512.507.aabb, MichaelKifer, Gary_Hallmark, GiorgosStoilos Present: FrankMcCabe LeoraMorgenstern josb Allen_Ginsberg Mike_Dean ChrisW PaulaP Dave_Reynolds Sandro pfps AlexKozlenkov StellaMitchell Mala_Mehrotra csma Harold PaulVincent DavidHirtle Hassan_Ait-Kaci Axel_Polleres +43.512.507.aabb MichaelKifer Gary_Hallmark GiorgosStoilos Regrets: IgorMozetic JosDeRoo MichaelSintek MarkusKrötzsch Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Nov/0079.html Got date from IRC log name: 21 Nov 2006 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-rif-minutes.html People with action items: allen[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]