See also: IRC log
HH: Regrets from Fabian
... and from Chime
<HarryH> PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly -- 07 Feb 2007 as a true record
<DanC> minutes 7 Feb
<HarryH> APPROVED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/att-0088/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html minutes 7 Feb
<HarryH> * ACTION: IETF Link and Profile Headers to be included as "feature at risk", and dropped if they are not approved by IETF by time of move to Proposed Recommendation.
HH: This is my action
... keep this as a feature at risk with a strict timeline?
<HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/
<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to e-mail Ivan to double-check this. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/14-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action01]
<HarryH> The question is whether to accept a schedule risk to add a 2 month candidate recommendation phase.
<HarryH> before going to proposed recommendation.
<HarryH> PROPOSAL: Is to keep the headers and add a 2 month candidate recommendation phase.
<HarryH> PROPOSAL: Is to keep the headers but do not add a 2 month candidate recommendation.
<HarryH> Any opinions?
<DanC> (I don't think the header can be done without the 2 month CR phase.)
Murray: If the headers are sound, then we should include them in the spec
<HarryH> bwm: No dependencies in the way.
Murray: What happens if we don't include this feature?
HH: We go straight from CR to R
Murray: Another risk is backtracking based on feedback if we stick with the feature
Ian: Likes the feature, as
discussed
... If the IETF process doesn't complete, it's a small amount
of work to take it out
HH: Do the current tests cover
RDF/XML docs well enough?
... Other comments addressed?
??: Mine were minor
<DanC> ACTION: DanC to address rreck's comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0042.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/14-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action02]
John: Thumbs up on the spec
danja: Thumbs up ...
DanC: There is still stuff not done.
HH: Can it be done soon?
DanC: Yes, but they're
normative.
... Particularly see Section 5.
... Does the GRDDL profile get processed by this mechanism?
HH: What is the difference between this and the namespace mechanism?
DanC: You don't follow your nose to the GRDDL profile URI in this case
--- questions arise on how namespace documents work
DanC: PO document, GRDDL agent goes to NS doc which says "world is flat"; is that part of a GRDDL result for the original doc?
John: Isn't that the way the spec works?
DanC: Nope
<DanC> currently the GRDDL spec *only* lifts namespaceTransformation triples from namespace documents.
John: But doesn't it then use those to create GRDDL results from the original doc (that could include "world is flat")?
DanC: We've agreed that section 3
is ok.
... but there is still a question about section 5
... What happens when there are multiple profiles?
... Does this question even matter?
<DanC> jjc's comment http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0040.html
<DanC> "because I don't have a hard coded
<DanC> rule for profileTransformation, but rely on the GRDDL transform of the
<DanC> GRDDL profile."
DanC: There may be some
implementor's confusion here
... I need to go over it again to make sure this mechanism is
sound.
<bwm> I just sent mail that I'm satisfied that issue-mt-ns has been addressed.
<DanC> looking for eRDF details... http://esw.w3.org/topic/CustomRdfDialects ...
<bwm> http://purl.org/NET/erdf/profile
<DanC> http://purl.org/NET/erdf/profile
<DanC> <p>This following link provides the statement : <a
<DanC> rel="profileTransformation"
<DanC> href="http://purl.org/NET/erdf/extract-rdf.xsl">extract-rdf.xsl</a>, <a
<DanC> rel="profile" href="http://purl.org/NET/erdf/profile">profile</a></p
<DanC> <link rel="transformation"
<DanC> href="http://www.w3.org/2003/g/glean-profile" /
DanC: May want a standard library of transformations
<DanC> ACTION: Ian to clarify profileTransformation for JJC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/14-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action03]
<HarryH> "if an information resource ?D has an XHTML representation whose profile attribute refers to ?PROFILE, then any GRDDL result of ?PROFILE is a GRDDL result of ?D"
HH: Remove that from the
spec?
... Do we have enough guidance to sort this issue out?
<DanC> possible new issues: (a) whether rules in section 5. GRDDL for HTML Profiles apply to http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view
<DanC> (b) whether http://www.w3.org/2003/g/glean-profile should be in the standard library
<DanC> possible tests for "no, namespace documen triples aren't part of grddl results"
<DanC> and likewise profiles
DanC: We're comfortable with the namespace document mechanism?
<DanC> possible test for exactly which triples are in grddl results of http://www.w3.org/2003/g/glean-profile
<HarryH> So, separating the transformation triples from the namespace, not a bug but a feature.
<HarryH> ACTION: danja is sketches the test in e-mail and bwm checks in it, but not required in last call. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/14-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action04]
<DanC> which test being "no, namespace documen triples aren't part of grddl results"
HH: We don't have consensus on last call due to JJC's security issues and namespace document questions
DanC: Do we want to reopen discussion on the "GRDDL-aware agent" conformance label?
<danja> "GRDDL-aware agent" = "a
<danja> software system which implements the mechanisms described in this
<danja> document".
DanC: "The GRDDL marketplace want
to shop for 'GRDDL-aware agents'"
... but I'm concerned about the costs, which have largely been
dealt with by JJC's proposal
IanD: Can we incorporate JJC's proposal as implementation advice instead of using a CL?
<DanC> indeed, "GRDDL-aware agents MUST support XSLT1" is something that might come up
HH: will we have to tighten the spec if we use a conformance label?
<briansuda> abstain
DanC: poll: conformance label, or no?
<rreck> i vote for conformance labels
<DanC> y, a a, n, y, ...
Murray: spec is good right now, but a CL would be a valuable tool in the marketplace
<DanC> y, a a, n, y, y/n,
<DanC> y, a a, n, y, y/n, y/n...
DanC: Status quo is "gee, this could be dangerous"
HH: JJC's proposal gives specifics, and would require a conformance label to enforce
<HarryH> and the question is should we write "You MUST do this to call yourself a GRDDL"
<danja> aside: in practice a GRDDL-aware agent may return different results for a given source document at different points in time (e.g. downstream profiles/transforms may 404)
Murray: isn't there a risk that such a change would require more time?
DanC: I think there's a good chance this could be done quickly
HH: And we return to the idea of not including conformance labels
Murray: - wants to see what Dan
comes up with
... What about a separate document defining a "GRDDL-aware
agent"?
HH: ... make a tech report out of
the test suite, with conformance labels there
... risk of losing momentum
DanC: But implementations are proceeding regardless
<HarryH> ACTION: DanC write the draft "conformance label" text, and then johnL and rreck and bwm (jeremy) will then re-read spec. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/14-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action05]
HH: Other open issues?
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note section 5 GRDDL for HTML Profiles isn't done
HH: created RDF/XML test cases
DanC: marker for "maximal" GRDDL result?
HH: JJC provided HTTP header test
case
... What if links in headers and in doc conflict?
<DanC> ACTION: DanC to add GRDDL header spec section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/14-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action06]
DanC: Spec still needs HTTP header text
<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0057.html
HH: What has priority? Doc, or header...
DanC: Don't want "priorities"
bwm: Aren't they additive?
... working on getting the test into the test suite
<HarryH> ACTION: bwm (jeremy) to put http header test in test suite [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/14-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action07]
<DanC> bwm, pls make a subdirectory under /td/ before you add the .htaccess, ok?
HH: Use N3 or not?
danja: Rec track for this?
HH: Straw poll said yes
<HarryH> Rec track for Primer, it's easier to find.
HH: (easier to find)
<DanC> (er... what's with FROM >http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/david-erdf.rdf< ? that's bogus SPARQL syntax)
<rreck> i concur. RDF/XML
danny: Found primer hard to read
<DanC> (have I got some sort of browser bug? "A diagram indicating the sequence of steps described for obtaining RDF from a document using an explicit link to the transformation as described in the preceding paragraph")
danja: Only blocking problem is the XFN RDF/XML currently in the text
rreck: Submitted changes, haven't heard back yet
HH: Willing to fix easy problems
<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to check those primer fixes in. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/14-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action08]
<briansuda> nope, i sent my suggestions
<HarryH> briansuda, happy with use-case document?
danja: Thumbs up, generally; suggestions submitted
<briansuda> i'm happy
<HarryH> OK.
<HarryH> Meeting Adjourned.