Nick van den Bleeken, Inventive Designers
Erik Bruchez, Orbeon
John Boyer, IBM (chair)
Charlie Wiecha, IBM
Leigh Klotz, Xerox (minutes)
Uli Lissé, Dreamlabs
Steven Pemberton, CWI/W3C
John Boyer: We should discuss the
next chairs. I've had some frank discussions and we have some
obligations. I will be a member, but after many years, I've been
asked not to chair the group.
Steven Pemberton: And editing?
John Boyer: Not the primary editor.
But there are feature specs with different editors.
John Boyer: I don't want to speak up
for others, but there is someone with lots of experience
available.
Leigh Klotz: Or co-chair. I think
having a co-chair is good anyway.
John Boyer: Who could step up to a
co-chair role?
Nick van: They won't allow you to
co-chair?
Charlie Wiecha: I might be able to but
I don't know until next year.
John Boyer: We should think about
this.
John Boyer: Erik and Nick helped by
typing in what they could remember.
Steven Pemberton: It stopped at
midnight GMT. I'll fix it.
Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-forms-minutes.html
John Boyer: It's scheduled for
tomorrow. Options are cancel or develop a specific agenda.
Steven Pemberton: Personally, I would
prefer to cancel it.
Nick van: I'm booked until 2PM.
Leigh Klotz: Do we want to postpone
rather than cancel?
John Boyer: December, or even January,
would be better for me.
Nick van: It wil be hard to do extra
meeting in January or February. December is busy but doable.
John Boyer: December 10th?
Erik Bruchez: Fine.
Leigh Klotz: OK.
Uli Lissé: OK.
John Boyer: OK, with apologies to
Steven, December 10th.
Leigh Klotz: And the time?
John Boyer: December 10th, 10:00AM
EST-12:00 EST, 1:00 PM EST - 4:00 PM EST.
Resolution 2009-11-18.1: Next vFtF December 10th,
10:00AM EST-12:00 EST, 1:00 PM EST - 4:00 PM EST.
Steven Pemberton:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2009&month=12&day=10&hour=15&min=00&sec=0&p1=136&p2=179&p3=215
Steven Pemberton: It's said to be
hard to find XForms 1.0 in less than 10 clicks.
John Boyer: We asked for a short link
for xforms10 and Ian said no.
Steven Pemberton: The writer is asking
to restore the xforms shortlink to xforms11.
John Boyer: Not as chair, I think most
implementations support 1.1.
Leigh Klotz: We were forced into this;
they asked us to make the /xforms short link point to xforms 1.1
even before it was REC.
John Boyer: Yes, we pointed out that
it would make it harder and we asked for an xforms10 short name,
but the response on xforms10 was no, because they want to incent
moving to xforms11. I agree with the rationale.
Steven Pemberton: OK, I'll
answer.
John Boyer: Going to a new major
version may present different issues. They were reluctant to let us
have the minor version release.
Steven Pemberton: Yes, the shortname
without the version number should give you the latest.
John Boyer: tr/xpath gives you
xpath1.0. They don't have a 1.1. The major version number appears
to be the dividing line for shortnames.
Steven Pemberton: The SMIL link takes
you to 1.0, which is daft.
John Boyer: It would be good having
the shortest names pointing to the latest versions. It's confusing
to have XPath not point to XPath 2.0, as it's 3 years old.
John Boyer: We have an ongoing
type.
Leigh Klotz: If we want a mediatype we
have to go to IETF.
Steven Pemberton: We just need a
schema.
Leigh Klotz: I have the validator.nu
work that Sam Ruby asked me to do, but I need to integrate the RNC
integrated into XHTML 1.0 RNC again. The time I did it before was
with James Clark's in Emacs and it's now GPL.
Steven Pemberton: We need a a W3C XML
Schema for the W3C validator.
Leigh Klotz: When I asked Sam Ruby
what to do he told me to integrate with the RNC validator
one.
John Boyer: We need a W3C validator
site. So I suppose we'd be using XHTML+XForms because it's XML
Schema.
Steven Pemberton: Yes.
Steven Pemberton: We could use the
XML Schema validator.
John Boyer: Where is the main
validator?
Steven Pemberton:
validator.w3.org
John Boyer: How do we get an entry on
that?
Steven Pemberton: We need to create a
Note that says this is the schema to use.
Leigh Klotz: I wonder if some of these
like XHTML+MathML+SVG are using RNC.
Steven Pemberton: We can validate with
the XML Schema validator.
John Boyer: We need to get our
validator done on this page though. That's what we need to ask Sam
Ruby.
Steven Pemberton: Sam Ruby doesn't
have anything to do with that.
John Boyer: I raised that with HCG and
they said to talk to Sam Ruby. So who is?
Leigh Klotz: It says v0.8.5 has been
integrated with the validator.nu engine.
Steven Pemberton: Using the M12N
schemas would be good because we can plug in with XHTML. All we
need is an XSD Schema and we ask ask the W3C validator.
John Boyer: So there's a document to
write, work to do to register it, and technical work to describe a
schema.
Leigh Klotz: There's W3C XML Schema
and Relax NG Schema.
John Boyer: So do we want
XHTML1+XForms, XHTML1.1+XForms?
Steven Pemberton: RDFa used XHTML
1.1.
John Boyer: Is there just one schema
for XHTML 1.1?
Leigh Klotz: For example http://s.validator.nu/xhtml10/xhtml-basic.rnc
John Boyer: The action item is
about what to do: publish the document and get the schemas
done.
Steven Pemberton: I'll find out what
to do to get the schema into the dropdown list.
John Boyer: So, seems we need 1)
technical work to create XHTML1+XForms validator, and 2) admin work
to get the XHTML1+XForms validator onto validator.w3.org as a
document type
John Boyer: Leigh, can you do
#1?
Leigh Klotz: I can find out but I may
not be the person to do the work. Steven said he'd find out what it
takes first.
John Boyer: So maybe just one action
item.
Action 2009-11-18.1: Steven Pemberton and Leigh Klotz to 1) technical work to create XHTML1+XForms validator, and 2) admin work to get the XHTML1+XForms validator onto validator.w3.org as a document type
John Boyer: Now, how do we respond
to the email. That we are going to validate XHTML?
Leigh Klotz: We should repeat that
XForms is a module and not a host language, and that we plan to
publish a note with a sample XHTML integration and get the schemas
hosted somewhere.
John Boyer: OK, I'll send the
response.
John Boyer: People are overloading
xf:load to target divs. We can talk about parity with xf:load and
xf:submission, and also about the target enhancements. Nobody owns
this as a feature for XForms 1.2. If nobody owns it it will not go
into 1.2.
John Boyer: There's two halves: we
don't have @new for submission.
Leigh Klotz: I'll do that.
Action 2009-11-18.2: Leigh Klotz to write up target=new for submission for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/CategoryXForms12
John Boyer: People have talked
about better targeting for load, not just a window but into a
#id.
Leigh Klotz: I'll do that.
Action 2009-11-18.3: Leigh Klotz to write up better targeting for load, not just a window but into a #id http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/CategoryXForms12
John Boyer: The reason we changed
target to targetref was that XHTML2 used target, and we didn't want
a name conflict. The target attribute seemed to match this feature,
so it may be the right attribute name. Or we could use the same
attribute on load.
Leigh Klotz: On load it was
@show=embed and @target.
John Boyer: So tehre needs to be some
interplay to make them consistent.
John Boyer: So maybe
replace=embed maybe for submission?
John Boyer: If we can write
progress into the event we might get cancellation.
Nick van: Do we use that
elsewhere?
John Boyer: We have a writeable node
for xforms-submit-serialize.
John Boyer: Is this something for
XForms 1.2?
John Boyer: Are there XForms
implementations with extensions?
Leigh Klotz: XHR has it.
Nick van: No.
Erik Bruchez: We do not have a
concrete need for it, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea.
Nick van: Same here.
John Boyer: So defer? That seems
reasonable.
Nick van: Yes.
John Boyer: Let's plan to discuss the UI events.