W3C Forms teleconference June 24, 2009

* Present

Erik Bruchez, Orbeon
Nick van den Bleeken, Inventive Designers
John Boyer, IBM (Chair)
Steven Pemberton, CWI/W3C
Charlie Wiecha, IBM
Leigh Klotz, Xerox (minutes>

* Agenda


* Previous minutes

* Upcoming Teleconferences

John Boyer: The next conference is July 1. I'd like to be able to take the holiday.
Leigh Klotz: I won't be here either.
John Boyer: Maybe we could move the July 2nd date out to July 9th.
Charlie Wiecha: That would be preferable.
Nick van: Yes.
Erik Bruchez: Sure, no problem.
John Boyer: OK so we will skip the July 1st teleconference.

Resolution 2009-06-24.1: We cancel the July 1st, 2009 teleconference.

* July 2nd FtF


John Boyer: So maybe can push this out for July 8th or July 9th?
Nick van: for me July 9 fits better too
Leigh Klotz: I can't attend at 9am.
Charlie Wiecha: I have a meeting the whole day of July 9th.
John Boyer: Maybe August? We end up losing someone ever week. We have custom actions and XPath and other customizations to discuss. XPath function, actions, MIPs, UI controls, and review of drafts (if we get that far).
John Boyer: [checking calendar]
John Boyer: We'll have our long telecon tomorrow, and so we move July 2nd to September 3rd. We can adjust the agenda.

Action 2009-06-24.1: John Boyer to move July 2nd vFtF meeting to September 3rd.

* July 15 and July 22 Teleconference

John Boyer: I'm out these dates; July 15th looks scarcely attended.
Charlie Wiecha: I can chair or minute the July 15th.
Steven Pemberton: How about if you chair Charlie, and I minute?
John Boyer: And July 22? Break?

Resolution 2009-06-24.2: We cancel the July 22nd, 2009 teleconference.

* Questions regarding @incremental


John Boyer: We don't specify it becuase we want to allow flexibility. We don't specify when the data is committed to the instance. We don't say "on every character" on purpose. So how should we respond?
Nick van: In 4.6.1 it says that when you activate the control the data is placed in the instance, and when you lose focus it is placed in the instance. With @incremental=true it's an implementation-dependent interval.
John Boyer: [reads]
Nick van: In the second bullet point...it says no events are required, so it hints that it is not sent to the instance either.
John Boyer: The third bullet point says "when the user activates the control" but we don't define that. It might be, for a single-line input, hitting enter. Or maybe a right click menu. We don't sepcify.
Steven Pemberton: Why doesn't the fourth point in 4.6.1 cover this?
John Boyer: Right, for focus change.
Nick van: He's asking for the case when the data isn't updated by the user.
John Boyer: This looks easy to answer, in the bullet points in 4.6.1.
Erik Bruchez: I don't know if I understand well, but he asks if "@incremental is only used to inform other controls that the bound node has changed". I don't think that's correct.
John Boyer: Yes, that's no. There is a schedule of updates from the form control to model, and the model informs other controls that a change of data has happened, and there is no direct linkage to other form controls.
John Boyer: Can someone respond?
Nick van: I can try, but I'm not sure if I understand all the questions.

Action 2009-06-24.2: Nick van den Bleeken to respond to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2009Jun/0032.html by explaining how works.

* PR Transition Request needed


John Boyer: Stven, thank you for sending it out. What's the next step.
Steven Pemberton: We may or may not have to have a transition call. Then we organize a questionnaire for a W3C vote to go from PR to REC.
John Boyer: So when would this happen?
Steven Pemberton: Within a week; if not we should ask.

* Problems with Test Cases 8.2.4.(a,b,c)


John Boyer: Erik's phone has dropped.
Nick van: Erik points out you can't activate an alert.
John Boyer: So these are tests of?
Nick van: The alert element.
John Boyer: How are they testing it?
Nick van: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Test/XForms1.1/Edition1/Chapt08/8.2/8.2.4/8.2.4.a.xhtml

<nick>    <xforms:label>Dispatch Alert Message</xforms:label>    
<nick>     <xforms:alert ev:event="DOMActivate" ref="/msg"></xforms:alert> 
<nick> </xforms:trigger> 

John Boyer: Part A tests whether the ref works. B tests inline. C tests whether ref overrides inline message, but in all three tests the means by which the alert is gotten is wrong. Maybe these tests have been modified?
Charlie Wiecha: I'll check Ubiquity.
Nick van: Chiba was failing the test; Joern pointed this out.
John Boyer: The only way to get an alert here is by setting to invalid data.

* IRC Minutes

IRC log continues for the day http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-forms-minutes.html