Shawn: We had discussed this in October and made a few changes.
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/127
Shawn: added "including text
displayed in the video" to a few places. If you agree, please
+1 on GitHub
... any questions about that?
... issue #127
<MarkPalmer> +1
<Laura> +1 same for me in github
<shawn> Github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/127
<brentb> https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/126
Shawn: On issue #126...In 30 Oct
meeting, we said there were a few things that people really
missed. I had added them to the intro but y'all said they got
lost. You suggested we highlight common mistakes and put it
higher.
... this page, including the bullet points, covers that
issue. Please take a minute to read through those.
... any comments?
<shawn> if agree, +1 to https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/127
RESOLUTION: to accept changes to GitHub #126 and #127
Shawn: Previous version mentioned
CART quite a bit. Terminology section was not meant to be
comprehensive but geared to the content of this page. Occured
to me to put the explanation within in the text rather than in
a separate terminology section, keeping it simple.
... here is the diff version
... ended up changing CART to captioning in several places
since people more commonly understand that term.
Estella: You changed CART into captions but CART is only for live captioning so while we are talking of live presentations, does it change the context? For me it was not to remove CART but to broaden the understanding. This may cause more confusion.
Sharron +1 to Estella
Estella: Captions and subtitles
are synonymous so not an issue.
... in Spanish
... The issue is not between remote captioning. It is the
difference between live captioning and pre-recorded
captions.
Shawn: How does that impact this resource?
Estella: It is because previously we mentioned only CART, a term used for live subtitling mostly in the US.
Shadi: The latest iteration talks about captioning generally and it feels like it does address your concern so I am not sure what is the problem.
Estells: Previously it was just about CART. My point was not to remove it entirely only to make the distinction that there are two kinds of captions, live and pre-recorded.
Shawn: We do say that live captioning is also called CART
Estella: That's OK.
Shawn: Had split things into several bullets but had some objections, will put it back how it was.
Shadi: May want to rephrase and change the order of the links so we don't send people off site
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/issues/26
Shawn: Take a minute to read what we have now.
Shadi: Interpreters is a much broader term. Language interpretations is a bit more defined.
Shawn: Now that I understand Estella's comment, I feel I can address. I will update "interpreter" comments. Then Estella please look at terminology issue to approve.
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/wiki/Criteria-for-what-to-include
Shawn: In the last
discussion we talked about what was out of scope... Making the
handout files themselves accessible, guidance on physical
facility. We want the resource to be striaght forward and
simple. Need to be careful not to add too much guidance so that
the resource does not start to overwhelm.
...First
question is, do we want a link to a PDF on guidance for writing
"easy to read materials."
Estella: The checklist that I added to GitHub is not so lengthy. It is a checklist. Maybe a checklist would be easier.
Shawn: On the checklist, let's look at how many of the items in the checklist are relative to presentations.
Estella: I was not sure how broad the scope of the resource was supposed to be.
Shawn: [Asking group] Should we link to these resources or not?
Shadi: One issue is
that there are so many resources. If we link to some it can be
perceived that we are endorsing them and not others. Also,
there is not an established way in which we select them. Also, these are
about "easy to read," there is also the issue of easy to hear,
listen to.
... "Easy to read"
by itself does not seem to cover everything. Need more on
writing and speaking, etc.
Estella: I shared the link because I saw somewhere in the resource it said "Use an easy to read font face," and I felt that was not enough. In agreement with Shadi.
Shawn: There may be some specific resources that we do want to add.
Shadi: Many resoruces on "easy to read" usually focus on other things like length of content, reading level, etc. Not so much what we are talking about here.
<shadi> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#objective-3-use-clear-and-understandable-content-0
Shawn: There are some key points that we should address. I will skim through and see what points we would like to add. Not to add links to resources, but adding key points in.
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/issues/24
Shawn: Any comments on this addition?
Estella: So many times in live presentations there is a lot of background noise. Need some suggestion to remind people to try and minimize the background noise.
Shadi: I agree.
There are several places where this content can be added,
mentioned. I was also thinking
to add "avoid multiple people speaking at the same time."
... Agree that we
should comment about background noise.
... Maybe not in
just one place but multiple.
Shawn: The focus is
currently on "in person" and not so much "remote."
... What do we want
to add for "remote" issues? Please consider and then add them
to GitHub issue #13.
Related to
that is the Title issue, #25.
<shawn> tit https://github.com/w3c/wai-presentations2all/issues/25
Shawn: Right now the
title is "How to Make Your Presentations Accessible to All."
The summary says ... prestentations, talks, meetings, and
training...
... If we expand the
scope, how do we make the title clear?
Estella: When I think about a presentation, I think speaker creating and presenting. The title seems to not cover what the resource is about.
Shawn: I agree, not sure what recommendation to make for different title. To cover everything would make it too long. Maybe we need a Main Title and Sub Title.
<shadi> ITU
Estella: Some organizations have resources on "How to Make your Meeting Accessible." Do we want to differentiate for them?
Shadi: This resource
originated from the idea about providing content on delivering
an accessible live in-person presentation.
... Then it grew
into more topics of delivering accessible presentations... I like the idea
of a subtitle. But it is really focused on "presentations." If we
expand beyond that it will really need to be broadened. Then
maybe it does not stay under Teach & Advocate.
Shawn: Okay, wanted to discuss and share ideas before we start working on the details here. Is this resonating with you Estella?
Estella: Yes, I understand it better now. For me some of the issue is if the audience is someone brand new to this or people who know about accessibility already.
<shadi> +1 to Estella
Shadi: 1) I agree
there is a gap for "remote". 2) There is demand for this
resouces addressing things broader than just presentations
(could need another resource or change scope of this resource).
3) Summary needs to be more clear what the resource will
support/offer guidance of.
... Maybe the
purpose of the resource needs to be much more explicit.
Shawn:Okay, I think I have some good feedback to implement some changes. If there are some changes we all agree on, I will get those done and published. Others I will work on and check back with Planning team and group down the road a bit.
<shawn> existing resource https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av/
<shawn> early rough draft https://deploy-preview-143--wai-media-guide.netlify.app/media/av/quicktips/
Shawn:Based on meeting in October it was suggested that we make a "Quick Tips" page for media. I got a start on it and am now looking for initial quick reactions.
<shawn> github issues with questions https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/pull/143
<estella> +1 to quick tips
<MarkPalmer> +1 to quick tips
Laura:I like the Tips page. I think it is helpful. Good amount of information and size of page.
Mark:Agree the page length is right. I like the concept that is covered.
Estella: I agree with Laura and Mark. I would structure it in a logical order. Start with Audio and Video, then on to the rest. More of a positioning issue. Content is good.
Shawn: Great
question. I went back and forth on the order of this draft
page. In the existing resource we discussed the order in which
content is presented. Planning / Content / Media Player /
Description / Caption. In the Quick
Tips I had in mind TPAC and all of the videos that people were
making for the W3C website in preparation for the meeting. That
was one of my use cases that I had in mind.
... We tell people,
"make your video accessible," and this would be the resource we
point them to. So on this tips
page, should we follow the structure of the resource, or go
with what we believe is the most important order.
Brent:question is do we anticipate people would see the quicktips as part of this resource. Or do we see that we would point people to the quicktips -- then, do in order of importance. Though, if we see it as another page in the resources, then makes sense to follow order in resource.
Shawn:GREAT INPUT BRENT!!! I see it could be a landing page. and then follow up with more of the resource.
Shadi: Big +1 to having quick tips.
Brent:Big -1 to having it in a different order than the rest of the resource.
<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av/#how-to-make-audio-and-video-accessible
Shadi:I believe this quick tips page should/would have links to other pages on how to do it. I think some if it is repeating what is on the front page.
<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/
Shadi:This would align
to the approach that we have implemented in the tutorials
(example of Forms Tutorial).
... I feel strongly
that we should not have a separate page because it could be
redundent. Also for SEO it would be nice to have it on the
front/opening page.
... Some of the
content could be "made/written more actionable."
... Would help if
you can send people just one page.
Laura: I do agree with Shadi in part. It would be good to have it on one page. Take the content that would be in Quick Tips and putting it right in the opening page near the top.
<estella> +1 to one page
Shawn: Difference would be that the opening page would be lengthened.
Mark: I agree that the opening page may be too long once tips content is added. "Rob Peter to pay Paul sort of thing"
Estella:I agree with having just one page. Could add expand/collapse to try and shorten the page and open what they are interested. To ease navigation.
Shadi:I like the idea of expand/collapse. The opening page already has a lot. I worry that the Tips would only be more of a summary of what is already on the opening page.
Shawn:I am leaning towards leaving this idea open, but not prioritizing it at the moment. I have captured all ideas. I will update the issue and point to minutes. Please check the issue and the minutes to be sure you ideas are captured accurately so that when we pick this up again we can move forward.
Shawn:I will go through the discussion and make a lot of these changes. Publish the content that we have agreement on and keep working on some of the other content to work it out.
Shawn:We will be
promoting the W3C EdX Intro to Accessibility course. We will be
making some edits to it in 2021. We hear from a
lot of student with some free time because of social
distancing. So think it would be good if we could promote the
course short term so that we can boost enrollment.
... If you have
thoughts on how to market and do outreach that would be
great.
Laura:The LOC has an outreach and education group. I can reach out to that team and have them help market.
Shawn: I will be creating a new page and will send that out to the group so it can be used with your promotion.There is a video that describes the course. There are also two other videos from the content that I can add to the page as well.
Brent:Thanks everyone for attending.Have a nice weekend and a safe holiday for those who are celebrating.