# Device APIs Working Group Teleconference

## 21 Aug 2013

[Agenda][3]

See also: [IRC log][4]

## Attendees

Present

    Frederick_Hirsch, Rich_Tibbett, Cathy_Chan, Giri_Mandyam, Josh_Soref,
Anssi_Kostiainen

Regrets

    Dominique_Hazael-Massieux

Chair

    Frederick_Hirsch

Scribe

    fjh

## Contents

  * [Topics][5]

    1. [Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements][6]

    2. [Minutes approval][7]

    3. [Network Discovery][8]

    4. [Proximity and Light][9]

    5. [Vibration][10]

    6. [Open Action Review][11]

    7. [Pending Action Review][12]

    8. [Other business][13]

    9. [Adjourn][14]

  * [Summary of Action Items][15]

* * *

<trackbot> Date: 21 August 2013

### Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements

<scribe> scribenick: fjh

Reminder: No DAP F2F at TPAC.

Publishing moratoria (26 Aug, 11 Nov, 18 Dec)
[https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2013JulSep/0029][16]

Reminder (28 Aug deadline): meeting time proposal:
[https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-
apis/2013Aug/0000.html][17]

fjh: if you are attending TPAC, please consider attending the Media Capture TF
meeting, as they would like attendance from members of DAP

many of those on the call indicated they are attending TPAC

fjh: please let the TF know you plan to attend, perhaps by sending mail to the
TF public list

please note meeting time proposal: [https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member
/member-device-apis/2013Aug/0000.html][17]

fjh: and respond if any issue, otherwise we will shift to Thursdays at same
time starting 12 Sept (unless objection heard on the list)

### Minutes approval

Approve minutes from 14 August 2013

[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/att-0027/minutes-2013-08-14.html][18]

**RESOLUTION: Minutes from 14 August 2013 are approved**

### Network Discovery

fjh: additional comment, Cathy: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
device-apis/2013Aug/0028.html][19]

richt: some of the issues can be closed

ISSUE-129?

<trackbot> ISSUE-129 -- Simplify Network Service Discovery API -- open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/129][20]

ISSUE-130?

<trackbot> ISSUE-130 -- Enable variety of protocols (e.g. UPnP, Bonour) with
protocol independent developer code -- open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/130][21]

<richt> ISSUE-129, we talked about this at some length in a previous conf
call: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/att-0002/minutes-2013-07-24.html#item03][22]

fjh: I think we need to seriously consider extension points, pulling Dial out
etc

cathy: this is a separate issue

richt: these two should be closed

... re ISSUE-129 jean claude has different model in mind, specification allows
different interaction mechanisms, levels so events allow different models

<richt> Regarding ISSUE-129, JCD is looking at this from one implementation
perspective: return zero services then use the onserviceavailable event to
then re-call getNetworkServices....

<richt> a user agent MAY return 1 or more services on the first call, making
the onserviceavailable event useful for monitoring changes on the network.

<richt> Allowing that kind of flexibility is good.

<richt> Therefore we don't want to change the specification as suggested in
ISSUE-129.

<richt> we also discussed this in [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
device-apis/2013Aug/att-0002/minutes-2013-07-24.html#item03][22]

<richt> ISSUE-130: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/att-0002/minutes-2013-07-24.html#item05][23]

<trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-130 Enable variety of protocols (e.g. UPnP,
Bonour) with protocol independent developer code.

richt: sent mail to list, introduces more problems to do this, especially
since no commonality among the various protocols

<Cathy> +1 on closing ISSUE-129 and ISSUE-130

richt: so that proposal is not mature

close ISSUE-129

<trackbot> Closed ISSUE-129.

close ISSUE-130

<trackbot> Closed ISSUE-130.

ISSUE-131?

<trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Support UPnP device discovery by Device Type? -- open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/131][24]

<richt> FYI, my email to the list RE: ISSUE-130 is @
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0032.html][25]

cathy: still open, Rich noted want to be able to group by device not device
type, agree with this, but need to work through the details

<richt> FYI, response to ISSUE-131: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public
/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0034.html][26]

cathy: up to UA to group by device, but what if UA does not do grouping

... how can UA handle permissions in that case

... I am working on defining the issue, then we can consider a proposal

ISSUE-132?

<trackbot> ISSUE-132 -- Announce a webapp as a Network Services Discovery --
open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/132][27]

fjh: this is a separate issue, announcing self on network

cathy: yes, agreed that this could be a separate spec at some point if needed,
so can close

ISSUE-132: WG agreed that this could be a separate spec at some point if
needed

<trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-132 Announce a webapp as a Network Services
Discovery.

close ISSUE-132

<trackbot> Closed ISSUE-132.

ISSUE-133?

<trackbot> ISSUE-133 -- Fix UPnP events subscription and unsubscription --
open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/133][28]

cathy: came up much earlier comments, UPnP event subscription issue

... spec has some bugs, so needs to be cleaned up, processing model is
currently unclear, so the spec needs revision

... jean claude raised issue as to why we do this at all

richt: these are good and helpful comments, need to review

... should we be handling event subscriptions is an issue, have heard question
from others

... it is in there so we can get pushed messages

... it is quite useful

... do we need it in the spec, maybe we don't , but it is there to have bi-
directional communication channel and to allow publish subscribe, not offered
by browsers

... it is a UPnP only feature, so for that reason it might make sense to
remove

fjh: is this a feature we need, is it nice to have but not needed?

richt: removing it would remove capability from UPnP services

... fixing it would be significant work

fjh: I'm wondering if it makes sense to remove, to err on the side of
simplicity, simplify testing etc

... maybe send message saying will remove see who complains

cathy: goal was to have full UPnP experience, if removed, can web application
still accomplish this

richt: maybe could accomplish in other more modular way

... like idea of keeping it simple

... there may be other places in platform to solve it in better

fjh: perhaps remove, simplify testing

richt: not much coupling since specific to UPnP

... will try to fix ISSUE-133 before we publish WD

ISSUE-134?

<trackbot> ISSUE-134 -- Rename NetworkServices and NetworkService events --
open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/134][29]

cathy: suggestion to rename events, proposal in ISSUE

fjh: makes sense to me

richt: makes sense to me

... will make this change

ISSUE-135?

<trackbot> ISSUE-135 -- Add security and privacy considerations section --
open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/135][30]

fjh: done

close ISSUE-135

<trackbot> Closed ISSUE-135.

ISSUE-136?

<trackbot> ISSUE-136 -- Issues related to garbage collection -- open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/136][31]

close ISSUE-136

<trackbot> Closed ISSUE-136.

fjh: we should respond to Adam regarding ISSUE-135 and ISSUE-136 once we have
new WD

... shall we plan to publish an updated WD on the 5 Sept

... would need publication ready draft by Wed 4th

richt: that should work

fjh: others things to talk about with regards to Network Service Disovery

richt: question about security with UPnP, also dubious services

... like Access Point services

... need to talk about those in security and privacy section

... dom sent pointer related to this

<richt> some other security-related issues for NSD to think about:
[https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msg/blink-
dev/HT0KZKuTLxM/DG9jOw6WzwoJ][32]

<richt> my response @ [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/0004.html][33]

richt: second item, looking for feedback from other vendors now as well

fjh: publishing WD will help us request that

richt: TPAC would be good place for that

fjh: maybe a break-out session on this would be helpful

... you can propose a session:
[http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2013/SessionIdeas][34]

### Proximity and Light

Newly raised issues addressed in editors draft, see
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Aug/0044.html][35]

fjh: thanks Anssi for the updates

anssik: thanks Dom for the very careful review

fjh: we do not have formal resolution of some issues, so am waiting on CfC

Proximity Event API LC-2740 requires resolution: [https://www.w3.org/2006/02
/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-proximity-20121206/2740][36]

Ambient Light Event API LC-2739 requires resolution:
[https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-ambient-
light-20121213/2739][37]

fjh: these are the "one document" versus separate specs

... good arguments either way, I suggest we go with our current direction

josh_soref: current approach allows to implement only one, without confusion
of what it means to be conformant if only implementing Light but not Proximity
for example

anssik: this is editorial

fjh: can we go to REC with two specs

josh_soref: can go forward to REC with two specifications but allow creation
of consolidated version

... having a single document can still introduce errors when material from one
is not appropriate to another

... talking about simply generating merge from two documents

**RESOLUTION: WG agrees to keep Proximity Event API and Ambient Light Event
API as separate REC Track specifications to enable clarity regarding testing
and conformance**

WG notes that combined version can be generated for convenience from these two
documents.

No confirmations on Proximity LC-2731, LC-2742 and Light LC-2737 and LC-2738.

fjh: as with other specs, will assume confirmation unless response received
during CfC period

... I believe this means that I can send the CfCs now

### Vibration

Question/Comment on CR draft: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
device-apis/2013Jul/0050.html][38]

Question Vibration and iframes, [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
device-apis/2013Jul/0055.html][39]

Question: Vibration strength [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
device-apis/2013Aug/0040.html][40]

fjh: I suggest you look at these and respond on the list

anssik: will look at them

fjh: if we need a clarification it would be useful to add

josh_soref: will work on the git pull requests for vibration test cases

### Open Action Review

ACTION-523?

<trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Work on test cases for battery,
vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523][41]

ACTION-621?

<trackbot> ACTION-621 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Create test cases for HTML Media
Capture -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621][42]

ACTION-642?

<trackbot> ACTION-642 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Review proximity and
ambient light test cases -- due 2013-09-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/642][43]

ACTION-643?

<trackbot> ACTION-643 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Review Ambient Light and
Proximity test cases by Sept -- due 2013-07-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/643][44]

ACTION-645?

<trackbot> ACTION-645 -- Frederick Hirsch to Share Network Service Discovery
editors draft with PING -- due 2013-07-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/645][45]

ACTION-646?

<trackbot> ACTION-646 -- Frederick Hirsch to Organize joint call with web and
tv group re network service discovery -- due 2013-08-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/646][46]

ACTION-647?

<trackbot> ACTION-647 -- Frederick Hirsch to Send cfc to progress light to cr,
two week cfc -- due 2013-08-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/647][47]

ACTION-648?

<trackbot> ACTION-648 -- Frederick Hirsch to Send cfc to progress proxmity to
cr, two week cfc -- due 2013-08-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/648][48]

ACTION-649?

<trackbot> ACTION-649 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Review todo items associated with
battery test cases -- due 2013-08-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/649][49]

### Pending Action Review

ACTION-650: Frederick Hirsch to Propose changing meeting time to thur at 10 am
et slot

close ACTION-650

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-650.

### Other business

none

### Adjourn

## Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

* * *

Minutes formatted by David Booth's [scribe.perl][50] version 1.135 ([CVS
log][51])

$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $

   [1]: http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home

   [2]: http://www.w3.org/

   [3]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/0046.html

   [4]: http://www.w3.org/2013/08/21-dap-irc

   [5]: #agenda

   [6]: #item01

   [7]: #item02

   [8]: #item03

   [9]: #item04

   [10]: #item05

   [11]: #item06

   [12]: #item07

   [13]: #item08

   [14]: #item09

   [15]: #ActionSummary

   [16]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2013JulSep/0029

   [17]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-
apis/2013Aug/0000.html

   [18]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/att-0027/minutes-2013-08-14.html

   [19]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/0028.html

   [20]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/129

   [21]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/130

   [22]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/att-0002/minutes-2013-07-24.html#item03

   [23]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/att-0002/minutes-2013-07-24.html#item05

   [24]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/131

   [25]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jul/0032.html

   [26]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jul/0034.html

   [27]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/132

   [28]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/133

   [29]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/134

   [30]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/135

   [31]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/136

   [32]: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msg/blink-
dev/HT0KZKuTLxM/DG9jOw6WzwoJ

   [33]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/0004.html

   [34]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2013/SessionIdeas

   [35]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/0044.html

   [36]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-
proximity-20121206/2740

   [37]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-ambient-
light-20121213/2739

   [38]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jul/0050.html

   [39]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jul/0055.html

   [40]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Aug/0040.html

   [41]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523

   [42]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621

   [43]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/642

   [44]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/643

   [45]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/645

   [46]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/646

   [47]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/647

   [48]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/648

   [49]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/649

   [50]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

   [51]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/