# Device APIs Working Group Teleconference ## 24 Apr 2013 [Agenda][3] See also: [IRC log][4] ## Attendees Present Anssi_Kostiainen, Bin_Hu, Clarke_Stevens, Frederick_Hirsch, Giri_Mandyam Regrets Josh_Soref Chair Frederick_Hirsch Scribe fjh ## Contents * [Topics][5] 1. [Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements][6] 2. [Minutes approval][7] 3. [CfC to move tests to Git][8] 4. [APIs][9] 5. [Proximity Constructor][10] 6. [Proximity - Unrestricted double][11] 7. [Vibration - Throw and Pause][12] 8. [Vibration - Introduction clarification][13] 9. [Proximity & Light - two events][14] 10. [Proximity & Light - Overall API comment][15] 11. [Network Service Discovery][16] 12. [Network Information API Comments][17] 13. [DOM Futures][18] 14. [WebIntents][19] 15. [TPAC & F2F Planning][20] 16. [Action item review][21] 17. [Issue review][22] 18. [Other Business][23] 19. [Adjourn][24] * [Summary of Action Items][25] * * * Date: 24 April 2013 ScribeNick: fjh ### Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements Reminder, June F2F has been canceled, [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public /public-device-apis/2013Mar/0035.html][26] Updated WD of Network Service Discovery has been published on 4 April, see [http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-discovery-api-20130404/][27] Media Capture TF update, [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0000.html][28] Welcome to new DAP participants, [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public- device-apis/2013Apr/0016.html][29] No call next week on 1 May, next call is 8 May. fjh: need to discuss status of WebIntents and Web Activities ... would like to see this work happening transparently on public list and in the group rather than in private ### Minutes approval Approve minutes from 27 March 2013 [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Mar/att-0034/minutes-2013-03-27.html][30] **RESOLUTION: Minutes from 27 March 2013 are approved** ### CfC to move tests to Git [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0013.html][31] fjh: CfC ended 23 April, with indications of explicit support, so we can go ahead with this **RESOLUTION: Move DAP tests to Git per [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public /public-device-apis/2013Apr/0011.htm4][32]** **ACTION:** dom to move DAP tests to Git, with help from others as needed [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap- minutes.html#action01][33]] Created ACTION-625 - Move DAP tests to Git, with help from others as needed [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-05-01]. ### APIs fjh: two items to talk about, one is specific feedback on specific APIs and other is general considerations related to APIs ### Proximity Constructor Constructor, [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0008.html][34] resolution - [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0028.html][35] anssik: non-issue, defined in DOM4 specification, and terminology is up to date ... asked anne if anything should be changed, no response, so this can be closed [https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw- file/default/proximity/Overview.html#terminology][36] points to DOM4 [http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#constructing-events][37] gmandyam: working on image capture specification, think you need at minimum of type of event, so Anne comment seems to be valid anssik: how to construct an event is defined in DOM4 Clarification: Based on my understanding of DOM4, the event has a mandatory constructor with a minimum arugment of DOMString type **ACTION:** anssik to update Proximity spec to clarify event constructor aspects [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap- minutes.html#action02][38]] Created ACTION-626 - Update Proximity spec to clarify event constructor aspects [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2013-05-01]. ### Proximity - Unrestricted double [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0009.html][39] resolution - [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0027.html][40] [https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/diff/cf48e944bbad/light/Overview.src.html][41] anssik: fix completed ### Vibration - Throw and Pause [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0020.html][42] anssik: idea is to change API yet not break existing implementations ... replace exceptions and replace with return of boolean ... simplifies development ... sent a proposal, update to editors draft fjh: does this apply to all APIs? anssik: mozilla indicated that they can update implementation fjh: to repeat what I heard, this simplifies error handling for async call, so if immediate error return false rather than using exceptions anssik: correct fjh: can we apply to other APIs anssik: in DAP no other APIs use this mechanism fjh: this should be documented for a general API design document so that we are consistent across W3C working groups, as one of the practices to follow ... need to follow up where the general API design is documented anssik: anne has good ideas regarding APIs fjh: we need this documented somewhere other than anne's head ... believe it was Robin's document [http://darobin.github.io/api-design-cookbook/#exceptions][43] anssiK: cookbook **ACTION:** fjh to contact Robin about returning booleans versus exceptions for cookbook update [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap- minutes.html#action03][44]] Created ACTION-627 - Contact Robin about returning booleans versus exceptions for cookbook update [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-05-01]. gmandyam: re image capture, exceptions can be raised if synchronously detected ... need to handle async differently fjh: anssi this change is in place, what next anssik: shared change on list, got feedback, made update, received more suggestions from Anne **ACTION:** anssik to send email to list with final proposal to update the "processing vibration patterns" algorithm to return boolean instead of throwing [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap- minutes.html#action04][45]] Created ACTION-628 - Send email to list with final proposal to update the "processing vibration patterns" algorithm to return boolean instead of throwing [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2013-05-01]. ### Vibration - Introduction clarification [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0052.html][46] s/tackle/address/ anssik: feedback off list that this is fine, with change of 'tackle' to 'address', will update specification soon got some LGTM responses off-the-list re intro update ### Proximity & Light - two events [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0019.html][47] proposed resolution - [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0043.html][48] anssiK: anne reviewed light and proposed we merge the two interfaces, for different granularity ... one lux value , one string, e.g. dim fjh: these were to address two different use cases, right? anssik: anne suggested that both be exposed on same interface, with one handler ... support this change ... only concern is that if interested in state only, will get extra events if lux value changes fjh: is it really good to get extra events? ... need to see if we have consensus ... we need to distinguish handling use cases simply versus implementation detail, how important and different are the use cases? ... wonder if we really need the lux value at all, isn't the higher level approach enough (dim etc) ... can ask this on the list ### Proximity & Light - Overall API comment [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0025.html][49] fjh: this comment reflects discussion about the DAP APIs on a different list, about issues that we resolved earlier, apparently expressing concern whether we are doing the right thing across APIs ... it might warrant another look ... but we should not be reopening closed issues without new information ... idea related to single sensor spec ... we have made the decision we did to enable faster development, independent tracks and testing and simplicity anssik: work is on an alternative proposal, should not block until we see an alternative specification fjh: consensus on call is to continue with current work until new information such as an alternative proposal is presented ### Network Service Discovery prefix issue , [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0054.html][50] (Jean-Claude) fjh: await comment from Richt ### Network Information API Comments [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0045.html][51] [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0046.html][52] fjh: looks like nothing needs to be done here, please comment on list if something needs to be done anssik: have additional discussion point. Talking to Mounir who talked with developers ... desire to expose latency as well as bandwidth fjh: who will make proposal? anssik: i do not have time for this fjh: if anyone can help, please volunteer on list gmandyam: concern from developers on how well bandwidth is estimated, similar issue expected with latency ... won't be useful unless commonality on how it is estimated **ACTION:** fjh to ask about latency and estimation mechanism for network information on DAP list [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24 -dap-minutes.html#action05][53]] Created ACTION-629 - Ask about latency and estimation mechanism for network information on DAP list [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-05-01]. ### DOM Futures [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Mar/0036.html][54] fjh: highlighting this in case you missed it ... not clear that we should do this first ... thoughts and comments welcome on list ... see that it offers benefits in terms of composition etc we may consider for future work - what are testing implications or implementation support anssik: do not want to change existing specs fjh: that is one of the questions gmandyam: too much risk fjh: saw pushback discussion in media capture TF gmandyam: SysApps is adopting this, some discussion at F2F, decided not applicable in sync interfaces ... do not seem to be uniformly applied anssik: will look into it fjh: what I am hearing is that we should defer this to new work unless convinced otherwise gmandyam: need to consider how ubiquitous support for this is, not sure WebKit support is being used. ### WebIntents fjh: need to have new visibility and transparency into discussions ... anyone aware of anything new? silence ### TPAC & F2F Planning 11-15 November is TPAC, in Shenzhen, China. fjh: Should DAP plan to meet in China at TPAC? ... too few on this call to decide ... once consideration is possible joint meeting with SysApps gmandyam: was suggested at SysApps F2F, perhaps 1/2 day to discuss areas of overlaps fjh: it comes down to whether DAP will have enough work to justify a F2F gmandyam: lots could change in six months, but currently do not see items to justify F2F, personally fjh: understood ### Action item review ACTION-446? ACTION-446 -- Frederick Hirsch to review security issue [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0006.html][55] -- due 2011-08-24 -- OPEN [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/446][56] fjh: this may be moot ACTION-523? ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523][57] anssik: still working on this ACTION-591? ACTION-591 -- Greg Billock to work with Mounir and James to create new webintents draft that reflects web activities and issues -- due 2013-03-29 -- OPEN [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/591][58] fjh: we need an update on this ACTION-621? ACTION-621 -- Anssi Kostiainen to create test cases for HTML Media Capture -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621][59] ACTION-622? ACTION-622 -- Frederick Hirsch to follow up on concrete actions based on PING input -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/622][60] ACTION-624? ACTION-624 -- Richard Tibbett to prepare WD of Network Service Discovery for publication, including link and validity checks -- due 2013-03-27 -- OPEN [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/624][61] ACTION-624: Updated WD of Network Service Discovery has been published on 4 April, see [http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-discovery-api-20130404/][27] Notes added to ACTION-624 Prepare WD of Network Service Discovery for publication, including link and validity checks. close ACTION-624 Closed ACTION-624 Prepare WD of Network Service Discovery for publication, including link and validity checks. fjh: close pending items close ACTION-474 Closed ACTION-474 Make a proposal for Network Information API. close ACTION-623 Closed ACTION-623 Prepare transition request for HTML Media Capture. ### Issue review issue-127? ISSUE-127 -- Status section of Battery CR draft should include exit criteria and at-risk items -- open [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/127][62] ISSUE-128? ISSUE-128 -- Need more description on how bandwidth should be estimated -- open [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/128][63] ### Other Business None No call next week on 1 May, next call is 8 May. ### Adjourn ## Summary of Action Items **[NEW]** **ACTION:** anssik to send email to list with final proposal to update the "processing vibration patterns" algorithm to return boolean instead of throwing [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap- minutes.html#action04][45]] **[NEW]** **ACTION:** anssik to update Proximity spec to clarify event constructor aspects [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap- minutes.html#action02][38]] **[NEW]** **ACTION:** dom to move DAP tests to Git, with help from others as needed [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap- minutes.html#action01][33]] **[NEW]** **ACTION:** fjh to ask about latency and estimation mechanism for network information on DAP list [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24 -dap-minutes.html#action05][53]] **[NEW]** **ACTION:** fjh to contact Robin about returning booleans versus exceptions for cookbook update [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap- minutes.html#action03][44]] [End of minutes] * * * Minutes formatted by David Booth's [scribe.perl][64] version 1.135 ([CVS log][65]) $Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $ [1]: http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home [2]: http://www.w3.org/ [3]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0056.html [4]: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-irc [5]: #agenda [6]: #item01 [7]: #item02 [8]: #item03 [9]: #item04 [10]: #item05 [11]: #item06 [12]: #item07 [13]: #item08 [14]: #item09 [15]: #item10 [16]: #item11 [17]: #item12 [18]: #item13 [19]: #item14 [20]: #item15 [21]: #item16 [22]: #item17 [23]: #item18 [24]: #item19 [25]: #ActionSummary [26]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Mar/0035.html [27]: http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-discovery-api-20130404/ [28]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0000.html [29]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0016.html [30]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Mar/att-0034/minutes-2013-03-27.html [31]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0013.html [32]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0011.htm4 [33]: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html#action01 [34]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0008.html [35]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0028.html [36]: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw- file/default/proximity/Overview.html#terminology [37]: http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#constructing-events [38]: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html#action02 [39]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0009.html [40]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0027.html [41]: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/diff/cf48e944bbad/light/Overview.src.html [42]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0020.html [43]: http://darobin.github.io/api-design-cookbook/#exceptions [44]: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html#action03 [45]: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html#action04 [46]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0052.html [47]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0019.html [48]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0043.html [49]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0025.html [50]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0054.html [51]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0045.html [52]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Apr/0046.html [53]: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html#action05 [54]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2013Mar/0036.html [55]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device- apis/2011Aug/0006.html [56]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/446 [57]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523 [58]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/591 [59]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621 [60]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/622 [61]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/624 [62]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/127 [63]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/128 [64]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm [65]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/