W3C

Device APIs Working Group Teleconference

13 Jun 2012

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Anssi_Kostiainen, Cathy, Clarke, Diana_Cheng, Dzung_Tran, Frederick_Hirsch, James_Hawkins, Josh_Soref, Laszlo_Gombos, Niklas_Widell, Wonsuk_Lee
Regrets
Robin_Berjon, Travis_Leithead, Jungkee_Song, Claes_Nilsson, Dave_Raggett
Chair
Frederick_Hirsch
Scribe
Josh_Soref

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 13 June 2012

<scribe> ScribeNick: fjh

Administrative

Publishing moratoria, 2H2012 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2012May/0000.html

19 June webinos launch, http://webinos.org/launch-day

No DAP teleconference on 4 July 2012 (also is US holiday), and no teleconference on 18 July 2012. DAP F2F 10-12 July.

<Josh_Soref> Scribe: Josh_Soref

Minutes Approval

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/att-0301/minutes-2012-05-30.html

RESOLUTION: Approve minutes from 30 May

Web Intents

fjh: mounir submitted a proposal (Web Activities)
... from the list, it sounds like they aren't as far forward as they think they are
... 1. We should talk about how WebIntents and WebActivities are common and how they might be converged, a good topic for the F2F, as well as the list
... 2. We have the discussion of Contacts being in DAP vs System Apps as well as making it concrete with how to integrate with WebIntents, but are starting with Gallery first
... 3. We should get a FPWD of WebIntents published; I think we can do this before working through the WebActivities issue as it is a first draft that clearly reflects WebIntents through the title, brings awareness and possibly more participation, and reflects where we are. We clearly can expect changes and additional working drafts (and a possible title change).

jhawkins: this will be my first time as an Editor
... i need information about FPWD
... i'm ok with holding off for a couple of days
... i have a reply for their counter-proposal that i hope to send off today

fjh: the draft is a Web Intents draft
... there's nothing wrong with publishing now
... a minor concern is that it solicits feedback and review
... there's no reason not to
... it's a matter of how long it takes to do the next thing
... i'm of the impression it might take a little longer to figure things out
... maybe we should add a note in the Status of Document section acknowledging the counter proposal

jhawkins: i'd to get feedback from ArtB

fjh: i think we need to keep moving

jhawkins: i agree
... i'll send out my notes today
... and people can get my opinions

fjh: and you can talk to ArtB

jhawkins: i agree

fjh: i'd like to get it done
... we can use time at the F2F
... i'm not sure who will be attending
... i'm not sure if mounir will attend

jhawkins: are you concerned about lack of critical mass

fjh: it can't hurt to ask mozilla about attending

jhawkins: i'll make an attempt to ask
... but i'll note there isn't an open channel available

<Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to note that dougt investigated attending

fjh: anyone else have comments about Web Intents?
... i know Claes isn't on the call

<Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to note that i planned to send a response to mounir's proposal, but i'm backlogged by lots of other things

F2F

<fjh> Please complete attendance questionnaire: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/DAPJuly2012F2F/

fjh: it's good to know

<fjh> (results https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/DAPJuly2012F2F/results )

fjh: please complete whether you intend to attend or not

<fjh> Logistics: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/BurlingtonF2F2012

<fjh> Draft Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/F2F_Agenda_10-12_July_2012,_Burlington,_MA_USA

fjh: if you have questions about the agenda, please ask
... anyone have any comments now?

<fjh> Two additional calls before F2F, 20/27 June

Device Storage API / Gallery

fjh: there's a thread about file system
... and where do you put stuff
... i'm not sure the thread reached a conclusion

<Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to note that flat file systems do not scale well and to stick around and hold my

Josh_Soref: if you are on a trip and take thousands of photos in three different cities, you want to be able to organize by city, a flat file system simply does not work
... tags may be like file folder, but whatever is done you need to organize and search does not work

jhawkins: you may have seen feedback from Steve VanDeBogart
... it's just a chrome extension api
... we want to wall it off from the web platform initially
... we need it elsewhere now
... our implementation of the api is more system level than jungkee's
... i like the intents based version
... i haven't looked into it as much as i'd like to
... it seems there are different levels of permissions
... that may warrant different apis
... the gallery level being more system
... needs more security
... whereas the intents version is safer

fjh: do you have a URL for the chrome extension?

<scribe> ACTION: jhawkins to send URL for gallery chrome extension to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jhawkins

fjh: the Web Notification WG changed Feature Permissions to
... tie in with WebIDL?
... AnssiK do you know what's going on there?

AnssiK: anne rewrote the spec to comply with pubrules
... and there's been discussion
... apple contributed

fjh: they thought about permissions
... they added an attribute permitted/not

AnssiK: tied to a notifications model
... we should not worry about that

fjh: we should avoid spinning things out into new WGs
... it's clear we should be aware of permissions
... i think it's a topic we have to work through

lgombos: in the case of notifications
... the conclusion is that we can't ccc permisions
... i think generally we want to avoid
... permission requests
... and favor implicit consent

fjh: if we can avoid permissions, and use web intents, we should
... and we can roll web activities into that

Deliverable Review

<fjh> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/

fjh: it's unfortunate that darobin was unable to attend
... he had something come up at the last minute
... for Battery and Vibration
... we are in CR and we can go to PR soon
... AnssiK are we thinking Fall or Sooner?
... maybe i should do this offline, involving dsr and darobin

AnssiK: what are the blockers for progress?
... test suite
... and a conformance report

fjh: thank you, we need the test suite
... and formal interop
... we need to figure out the time frame for that
... the next step is to know who is doing what and when
... HTML MC
... i think we need to publish another Draft
... we could go to LC, but i think it's premature
... we need to figure out when to go to LC w/ it
... Network Permission APIs
... it's fairly simple
... we published a Draft in June
... but we can wait
... Proximity... FPWD - we don't have one
... we had activity, but it's calmed down
... i think we should do a FPWD
... i can't remember who the editor is

<fjh> Anssi

AnssiK: i think we should go for FPWD
... it has an issue of side-effects

fjh: i'll do a CfC for that
... it's good to have frequent publications
... any concern with having a FPWD for Proximity?
... i'm having trouble with ReSpec, i'm not sure if it's working?

AnssiK: it's looking fine for me

<dtran> no concern

AnssiK: I updated all my specs to use the latest ReSpec

<fjh> ACTION: fjh to start CfC for FPWD of proximity [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-541 - Start CfC for FPWD of proximity [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-06-20].

AnssiK: seems to work fine for me

fjh: i'll look into it later, it must be me

AnssiK: do a force-refresh

fjh: Contacts/Calendar
... we're kind of blocked on them
... i think we want to unblock them
... we were using Gallery as the first test with Web Intents

<fjh> Web Application Privacy Best Practices

<fjh> would like to progress to Note

<fjh> ACTION-470?

<trackbot> ACTION-470 -- Frederick Hirsch to update web application privacy best practices related to active consent -- due 2011-11-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/470

fjh: it has been around a long time
... i'd like to put out a CfC to publish it

<fjh> ACTION: fjh to review Web Application Privacy Best Practices, complete ACTION-470, put out CfC to publish as Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-542 - Review Web Application Privacy Best Practices, complete ACTION-470, put out CfC to publish as Note [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-06-20].

Josh_Soref: i'll try to review it at some point tomorrow

Action Review

<fjh> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/open

fjh: i'd like to do this before the F2F
... i think darobin had an action to ask the Web Intents

Josh_Soref: i don't think we sent an email to the list

jhawkins: no, that's for me to do, i'll do that today

fjh: CfC for MC update
... brian isn't on the call

<fjh> ACTION-482?

<trackbot> ACTION-482 -- Josh Soref to contacts find() may be replaced with Intents -- due 2011-11-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/482

fjh: Josh_Soref you have a bunch with contacts

<fjh> ACTION-482?

<trackbot> ACTION-482 -- Josh Soref to contacts find() may be replaced with Intents -- due 2011-11-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/482

<fjh> ACTION-483?

<trackbot> ACTION-483 -- Josh Soref to send proposal to list for how Contacts will move forward -- due 2011-11-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/483

ACTION-482: this can be replaced by intents

<trackbot> ACTION-482 Contacts find() may be replaced with Intents notes added

Josh_Soref: close ACTION-482

<trackbot> ACTION-482 Contacts find() may be replaced with Intents closed

Josh_Soref: i worked with greg at DAP-Shenzhen on the intents api
... i thought we sent it out
... in which case the resolution is to point to the email

fjh: can we get it done before the F2f?

jhawkins: we can do that

<fjh> ACTION-491?

<trackbot> ACTION-491 -- Josh Soref to investigate using intents for Contacts, perhaps Calendar and Thermometer -- due 2011-11-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/491

fjh: it sounds the same

Josh_Soref: the general consensus is to do calendar after contacts

ACTION-491: Calendar happens after Contacts - because it's harder

<trackbot> ACTION-491 Investigate using intents for Contacts, perhaps Calendar and Thermometer notes added

ACTION-491: thermometer someone could throw up a demo intent

<trackbot> ACTION-491 Investigate using intents for Contacts, perhaps Calendar and Thermometer notes added

Josh_Soref: close ACTION-491

<trackbot> ACTION-491 Investigate using intents for Contacts, perhaps Calendar and Thermometer closed

fjh: Josh_Soref i thought you sent an example to the list about that

Josh_Soref: i think i talked it through in Shenzhen

fjh: should we be creating a thermometer API

Josh_Soref: no need for an actual spec for this one
... there's a question of whether everything should have a w3c spec
... this is one i think that can just be on web intents
... .org

<fjh> ACTION-489?

<trackbot> ACTION-489 -- Robin Berjon to prepare Requirements, SysInfo, Messaging, Gallery for shelving (wait for text from Deepanshu for Reqs) -- due 2011-11-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/489

fjh: i think that the shelving was all done

AnssiK: i think i've done all of those

<fjh> ACTION-489: shelving done

<trackbot> ACTION-489 Prepare Requirements, SysInfo, Messaging, Gallery for shelving (wait for text from Deepanshu for Reqs) notes added

<fjh> ACTION-489 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-489 Prepare Requirements, SysInfo, Messaging, Gallery for shelving (wait for text from Deepanshu for Reqs) closed

fjh: i don't know what UPnP is up to
... Cathy ?
... do we want to put it on the Agenda

Cathy: i think it depends on whether Claes and richt would be there

fjh: Claes said he'd call in

<Clarke> +1 for UPnP discussion

jhawkins: i'd be interested in talking about it

fjh: i think we should slot it in the agenda

<fjh> ACTION-516?

<trackbot> ACTION-516 -- Josh Soref to propose Security Considerations section on SSL for Intents sepc -- due 2012-03-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/516

Josh_Soref: i should have sent an email then
... it's basically a simple email

<fjh> ACTION: fjh to check with Josh Soref on actions next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-543 - Check with Josh Soref on actions next week [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-06-20].

<fjh> ACTION-519?

<trackbot> ACTION-519 -- Claes Nilsson to add a proposal for hidden disposition. -- due 2012-03-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/519

Josh_Soref: did we finish that off?

jhawkins: we have some ideas, we might be able to take this on

<fjh> ACTION-519: member:jhawkins - we have some ideas on this topic

<trackbot> ACTION-519 Add a proposal for hidden disposition. notes added

<fjh> ACTION-531?

<trackbot> ACTION-531 -- Robin Berjon to draft DAP charter version 3 -- due 2012-03-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/531

<fjh> ACTION-531 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-531 Draft DAP charter version 3 closed

AOB

fjh: anything i forgot?

Josh_Soref: i'll send out minutes tomorrow

fjh: if you have topics for the F2F Agenda, please feel free to add them to the wiki
... darobin and i will shuffle things around anyway
... if you have questions about logistics, please let me know
... please complete the questionaire attending or not

[ Adjourned ]

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: fjh to check with Josh Soref on actions next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: fjh to review Web Application Privacy Best Practices, complete ACTION-470, put out CfC to publish as Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: fjh to start CfC for FPWD of proximity [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jhawkins to send URL for gallery chrome extension to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $