W3C

Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference

09 Mar 2011

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Claes_Nilsson, Frederick_Hirsch, Gyubong_Oh, John_Morris, Laszlo_Gombos, Niklas_Widell, Rich_Tibbett, Robin_Berjon, bryan_sullivan
Regrets
Thomas_Roessler
Chair
Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
Scribe
nwidell

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 09 March 2011

<fjh> trackbot-ng, start telecon

<trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 09 March 2011

<scribe> scribeNick: nwidell

Administrative

<fjh> Daylight savings time start

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Mar/0001.html

<fjh> W3C Workshop on Web Tracking and User Privacy

<fjh> http://www.w3.org/2011/track-privacy/

<fjh> 2nd Last Call Working Draft Transition announcement of the Ontology for Media Resource 1.0

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Mar/0028.html

<fjh> Robin already commented on previous draft

darobin some relationship with our work, may want to revisit API at later point

<fjh> Content security policy

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Mar/0014.html

dom: it is an interesting proposal, but fairly different scope compared to DAP

<fjh> dom notes security mechanism related to http headers, but different scope from dap, focus on cross-site scripting

<fjh> Universal control API

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Mar/0021.html

fjh: not quite sure what to do with proposal,

richt: it would beneficial to have other players in DAP, nice to bring work in

<richt> nice to bring other industries in to a well-balanced discussion forum.

darobin: They are interested, some quite interesting security issues, we should reach out to BBC about this, should take it into chartering discussion

<fjh> Overview of W3C technologies for mobile Web applications

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0108.html

<fjh> F2F is next week, no teleconference call, and no call following week.

Minutes approval

<fjh> Approve 23 February minutes

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/att-0105/minutes-2011-02-23.html

<Gyubong_Oh> I am not famillar with IRC. probably, yes, I am

RESOLUTION: Minutes from 23 February 2011 approved

F2F Agenda

<fjh> Draft agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/F2F_Agenda_15,_16,_18_March_2011,_Seoul

darobin: Starting time (0900) ok?

fjh: good to have early start for people calling in.

<darobin> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=9&month=3&year=2011&p1=235&p2=195&p3=43&p4=137

<dom> richt, if you could send your input re ACTION-343 before the F2F, it would be best for the charter discussions

<richt> I will provide that on the list

<dom> (5pm Seoul is 8am London, FWIW)

<dom> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=15&month=3&year=2011&p1=235&p2=195&p3=43&p4=137&iv=0 is a better link given daylight change in US on Sunday

<richt> yeah, dialling in from Europe is going to hurt.

<jmorris> fyi, 9am in Korea is midnight in London

fjh: might switch contacts and interop.

richt: what about device?

<dom> ACTION-300?

<trackbot> ACTION-300 -- Claes Nilsson to start working on use cases and requirements for video/audio conference à la <device> element -- due 2010-11-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/300

fjh: please send comments on Agenda to public list

<fjh> Logistics information: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/SeoulF2F2011

<fjh> zakim reservation, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Mar/0000.html

Workshop

<fjh> http://www.w3c.or.kr/DAP2011/

<richt> RE: F2F. I'm concerned on the timings for dialling in from Europe but not much we can do on that. Will see how it goes.

fjh: DAP members do not need to register for workshop, others do

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Mar/0006.html

June/July F2F

Charter

<fjh> Current charter, http://www.w3.org/2009/05/DeviceAPICharter.html

<fjh> Proposed charter, http://www.w3.org/2010/11/DeviceAPICharter.html

<fjh> Call out Sensor Specification separately from SysInfo (Dzung)

<fjh> Additional deliverables, Privacy Mechanisms, Feature Permissions

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Mar/0016.html

<fjh> Audio volume API, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Mar/0023.html

fjh: Suggest to add sensor deliverable
... Feature permission should certainly be a group deliverable
... we need to mention a Privacy deliverable in the charter

<darobin> +1

dom: The more concrete proposal we have the easier it is to discuss it

fjh: not sure how detailed how the text wrt privacy can be at this point

dom: Need to define at least rough scope.

<fjh> ACTION: fjh to propose concrete text for privacy and feature permission for draft charter [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-344 - Propose concrete text for privacy and feature permission for draft charter [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2011-03-16].

<dom> ACTION-343?

<trackbot> ACTION-343 -- Richard Tibbett to propose better wording for System information and events api in new charter -- due 2011-03-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/343

fjh: Sensors are also wide reaching, need to define scope, AR might be based on sensor work

APIs

<darobin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Mar/0015.html

<darobin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2011Mar/att-0001/microsoft-api-draft-final.html#capture_api_extensions

darobin: Microsoft provided some good indirect feedback on the Media Capture API
... includes some usage examples, and how to be used in code

<Zakim> richt, you wanted to ask if we should direct them to the <device> element instead of overloading the file input control (like we tried and failed to do).

richt: Two proposals (capture/device), streaming more related to device, should we point them there

darobin: It is Microsoft's input to the incubator group

richt: The concept of speech apis is very important
... we should try to avoid fragmentation

darobin: Microsoft's document was definitely feedback to DAP

<dom> note that we don't have any of the editors of the document on the call, unfortunately

<dom> ACTION: Laszlo to look at Microsoft feedback on Capture API [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-345 - Look at Microsoft feedback on Capture API [on Laszlo Gombos - due 2011-03-16].

<dom> ACTION-345: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2011Mar/att-0001/microsoft-api-draft-final.html#capture_api_extensions

<trackbot> ACTION-345 Look at Microsoft feedback on Capture API notes added

Laszlo: I can be an editor of Media Capture

Contacts

<richt> Updates to the Contacts API (cvs_log) http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2009/dap/contacts/Overview.html

darobin: Two topics, updates and search filters

richt: Updated spec in line with previous discussions on calls, list
... feedback would be great.

darobin: Should try to have feedback before F2F

<darobin> ISSUE-106?

<trackbot> ISSUE-106 -- Does Contacts API having a timezone field make sense, should it be utfOffset or utcOffset and tz to better match vCard? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/106

<Zakim> dom, you wanted to ask about LC

dom: Is the Time Zone issue solved?

<dom> [re search Filter, I think we should be much more silent since search filters are meant as hints rather than as strict filters]

<fjh> should add comment to issue noting how it is resolved when closing it

richt: the current spec contains informative info about time zone, but it is a dual-purpose attibute,

fjh: Why remove search filters?

richt: filters don't add value to API, only to UI. The complexity of the search filter outweigh benefits

<dom> (I would actually favor not defining an algorithm for filtering, but not removing filters completely)

<darobin> +1 to dom

richt: search filters are hard, we can put it back later

<darobin> +1

dom: intent to keep the filter parameter for UA use, but scrap filtering algorithm

<fjh> +1 to retaining feature, not sure how well defined it has to be

richt: scrap filtering algorithm might work

<fjh> are the user interaction guidelines is entirely optional, should it be?

dom: We often provide hooks for UAs, but not ull functionality

<fjh> s/Is the user interrface/are the user interaction guidelines/

darobin: One advantage of having search filter present, then in trusted environments searches can be made more efficiently

<darobin> RESOLUTION: Keep the search filter parameter, but simplify the feature

<Zakim> fjh, you wanted to ask about what happends to 4.2

<Zakim> darobin, you wanted to talk about CfC

darobin: Wait with CfC until updates made

Sys Info

darobin: Fold the current discussion into charter discussion?

dom: better to keep progress on current work

darobin: Proposals?
... might want to split work into safe/simple parts and complex/extensible parts

<darobin> +1 for people coming up with concrete proposals

fjh: wasn't idea to keep sysinfo, but pull out sensors to separate generic FW api

dom: we need concrete proposals

<darobin> +1

<darobin> [let's do battery]

richt: If we expose only a tiny amount of device information we have actually succeeded

<dom> +1 to start with simple and do it well :)

<fjh> section 4 of sysinfo outlines various aspects that could be treated separately

<darobin> ACTION: Robin to propose a sweet and simple battery API [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-346 - Propose a sweet and simple battery API [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-03-16].

Laszlo: look at availability of sys info in android may be a good starting point

<darobin> ACTION: Laszlo to come up with some examples and rough ideas for simple sysinfo APIs at the f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-347 - Come up with some examples and rough ideas for simple sysinfo APIs at the f2f [on Laszlo Gombos - due 2011-03-16].

Messaging

darobin: Use Messaging based on URI schemes

richt: My proposal was to expose messagin though libraries, URI schemes client/server interaction etc, no specific API
... it is an API that does not need to be an API
... not convinced by the existing additions (callbacks, attachments)

darobin: But Apple's Messaging API (simple)

dom: Can't discuss it
... relying on client server will not work with SMS/MMS

richt: is there enough incentive with callbacks/attachments to have separate API

darobin: can we create dead simple API (e.g. only adding attachments)?

<darobin> [the hidden problem no one has raised is how the heck the browser gets to know the user's email configuration...]

richt: extend URIs with extra parameters for attachments

<dom> [darobin, you wouldn't need it with our current API]

<darobin> <form target="mmsto:+33681754541"><textarea>...</textarea><input type=file multiple/></form>

dom: doing attachments through URI schemes is unlikely

<darobin> [dom, how are you going to send something as robin@berjon.com without knowing my server's password? use open relays?]

<dom> [through my MUA]

<darobin> navigator.sendMessage("mailto:foo@bar.com", [blob1, blob2, blob3], errorCB)

<dom> right

<darobin> [dom, right, but I'm not sure how to communicate attachments to my MUA]

<dom> [well, using your local IPC system, I would assume]

richt: Implementor support is very important

dom: but the problem has been to get that implementor feedback

<darobin> [we want a more fleshed out proposal, then get feedback]

dom: we probably have a start to a new proposal

<darobin> +1

dom: should aim for something more "webby"

<dom> ACTION: Dom to send concrete proposal for navigator.sendMessage with URI scheme [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-348 - Send concrete proposal for navigator.sendMessage with URI scheme [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-03-16].

Outstanding actions

<darobin> ACTION-341?

<trackbot> ACTION-341 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to reserve zakim line for f2f -- due 2011-03-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/341

<darobin> ACTION-322?

<trackbot> ACTION-322 -- Frederick Hirsch to follow up on ECMA TC-39 coordination -- due 2011-01-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/322

<darobin> ACTION-335?

<trackbot> ACTION-335 -- Frederick Hirsch to propose charter changes related to security and privacy deliverables -- due 2011-02-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/335

<dom> ISSUE-81?

<trackbot> ISSUE-81 -- How to represent dates? ES has Date but with no TZ information; using strings is less than ideal; do we have to create a Web Dates specification? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/81

<dom> ACTION-297?

<trackbot> ACTION-297 -- Robin Berjon to draft up TZDate -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/297

richt: Would be great if javascript had a Calendar object (timezonedate)

<richt> similar to Java Calendar class

<fjh> Please review the open actions list, note any actions that should be closed and try to complete actions, preferably before the F2F if feasible

<fjh> open action list, http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/open

Adjourn

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Dom to send concrete proposal for navigator.sendMessage with URI scheme [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: fjh to propose concrete text for privacy and feature permission for draft charter [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Laszlo to come up with some examples and rough ideas for simple sysinfo APIs at the f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Laszlo to look at Microsoft feedback on Capture API [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Robin to propose a sweet and simple battery API [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-dap-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $