Re: Version issues

Jim Whitehead (ejw@ics.uci.edu)
Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:10:01 -0800 

From: Jim Whitehead <ejw@ics.uci.edu>
To: Versioning <ietf-dav-versioning@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:10:01 -0800
Message-ID: <005901be7ca5$888024a0$d115c380@ics.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Version issues



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Kaler (Exchange) [mailto:ckaler@exchange.microsoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 11:28 AM
To: 'Geoffrey M. Clemm'
Cc: jamsden@us.ibm.com; ejw@ics.uci.edu; dgd@cs.bu.edu;
Cragun.Bruce@gw.novell.com; bradley_sergeant@intersolv.com
Subject: RE: Version issues


So my point (and eventually I do have one, you just need to hang in there)
is that I want to be able to:

1) have multiple checkouts
2) not consume lots of server resources
3) not have my server implement the whole level 2 enchilada
4) solve world hunger
5) see all the children of the world stand together and sing of peace

Possibly, but I'm not certain, items 4 and 5 are out of scope :-).

Cheers,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey M. Clemm [mailto:gclemm@tantalum.atria.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 4:28 AM
To: Chris Kaler (Exchange)
Cc: jamsden@us.ibm.com; ejw@ics.uci.edu; dgd@cs.bu.edu;
Cragun.Bruce@gw.novell.com; bradley_sergeant@intersolv.com
Subject: Re: Version issues



   From: "Chris Kaler (Exchange)" <ckaler@Exchange.Microsoft.com>

   I have two concerns that I'll just keep plugging :-)

And I hope you keep on plugging until we've got it right!

   1) I want to be able to have multilpe checkouts.  The current
      discussions, I believe, require me to have two workspaces.

Remember that at level-1, a workspace is primarily just a checkout-token.
This means that you do need two workspaces, but that's because you need
two checkout-tokens.  At level-1 workspaces can be incredibly light-weight.
They can be just checkout-tokens.  There is just one-special checkout-token
that can be queried to determine the "default revision selection mechanism"
at a web-site.

   2) As we have defined a workspace, it can consume valuable server
      resources.  My concern is that I use a workspace as a token
      and the client is happy, but the server starts to die because
      of resource depletion.

A workspace at level-1 does not have to consume no more resources than
a checkout-token.  What resources are you concerned that it must
consume?  Certainly a server could chose to implement more of the
level-2 aspects of a workspace, but that is not required by the
level-1 protocol.

Cheers,
Geoff

   Chris

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Geoffrey M. Clemm [mailto:gclemm@tantalum.atria.com]
   Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 9:54 PM
   To: Chris Kaler (Exchange)
   Cc: jamsden@us.ibm.com; ejw@ics.uci.edu; dgd@cs.bu.edu;
   Cragun.Bruce@gw.novell.com; bradley_sergeant@intersolv.com
   Subject: Re: Version issues



   The protocol will let you treat a workspace as merely a checkout token
   (with no revision-selection-rule).  The only exception is the default
   workpace, which has a single revision selection rule indicating how
   you want the default revision computed.  A server can make this
   default workspace revision selection rule read-only, so that the
   server doesn't have to implement more than one built-in default
   revision selection rule (e.g. "label=default").

   How does this require any more from the server than you already
   have it provide?

   Cheers,
   Geoff


      From: "Chris Kaler (Exchange)" <ckaler@Exchange.Microsoft.com>

      If I want to view a document store as a file system, I don't care
      about workspaces.  I want to version my documents, like I do, say
      in the VMS file system.  I don't want to think about workspaces.

      If I am tracking the information on the client I don't necessarily
      want it tracked on the server.  I might have a good reason, e.g., I
      don't want to waste server resources or time.

      The model needs to accommodate these.

      Chris
      -----Original Message-----
      From: jamsden@us.ibm.com [mailto:jamsden@us.ibm.com]
      Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 10:33 AM
      To: Chris Kaler (Exchange)
      Cc: jamsden@us.ibm.com; gclemm@atria.com; ejw@ics.uci.edu;
      dgd@cs.bu.edu; Cragun.Bruce@gw.novell.com;
      sridhar.iyengar@mv.unisys.com; Chris Kaler (Exchange);
      bradley_sergeant@intersolv.com; ABabich@filenet.com
      Subject: RE: Version issues




      [CK2] Two points - and they represent different customer segments.
	    (1) This isn't my model.  I have lots of unrelated documents
		and, as a level 1 client app, this complicates everything.
	    (2) There are cases, NT for example, where workspaces will have
		real scalability problems.  I may want/need to manage the
		state on the client not the server.
      How do workspaces complicate things and for whom? I agree they make a
      little more work for servers to do the revision selection, but I think
   it's
      better to have that complexity in the server not the many clients that
      access the server. You get much better reuse and simplify what clients
   and
      users have to do. Isn't that a good thing?

      Also, just because there's workspaces doesn't mean a client can't
   implement
      its own model with labels, properties, other resource types, etc.
      Workspaces aren't a restriction for clients, they're a service.