[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2023-11-09

https://www.w3.org/2023/11/09-i18n-minutes.html





text version:
[1]W3C

[1] https://www.w3.org/

                        – DRAFT –
      Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

09 November 2023

[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

[2] 
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20231109T150000/
[3] https://www.w3.org/2023/11/09-i18n-irc

Attendees

Present
     Addison, Bert, Fuqiao, Martin, Richard

Regrets
     Atsushi, JcK

Chair
     Addison Phillips

Scribe
     addison, xfq

Contents

1. [4]Agenda Review
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR Review
5. [8]Generic Font Families
6. [9]AOB?

Meeting minutes

Agenda Review

Action Items

<gb> Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #58, #57, #56, #55,
#54, #53, #47, #43, #39, #35, #33, #18, #16, #12, #11, #8, #7,
#5, #4

<addison> #58

<gb> [10]Action 58 revise localizable-manifests in light of
tpac conversation and new explainer (on aphillips) due
2023-11-09

[10] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/58

<addison> [11]https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/
1SC0wVmEPKpeFdDmIvqBlFpcRZdY0yGzP/edit?usp=drive_link

[11] 
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SC0wVmEPKpeFdDmIvqBlFpcRZdY0yGzP/edit?usp=drive_link

addison: I gave a lightning talk at the UTW
… about string meta

<addison> #57

<gb> [12]Action 57 add localizable content definition to the
glossary (on xfq) due 2023-11-09

[12] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/57

<addison> #56

<gb> [13]Action 56 check on permissions with w3ctag and follow
up with plh on looking for notifications (on xfq) due
2023-11-02

[13] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/56

<addison> #55

<gb> [14]Action 55 work out new time slot for i18n/CSS call (on
xfq) due 2023-11-01

[14] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/55

<addison> xfq: enough answers to doodle poll, will propose time
slot

[15]https://doodle.com/meeting/organize/id/aOZ9ZpEe

[15] https://doodle.com/meeting/organize/id/aOZ9ZpEe

<addison> #54

<gb> [16]Action 54 read Murata-san's ruby-t2s-req and Chinese
requirements and Zaima and see what we're going to do (on xfq)
due 2023-11-01

[16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/54

<addison> #53

<gb> [17]Action 53 come up with a set of information CSS want
the i18n group to provide support for generic font families (on
frivoal, fantasai) due 2023-11-01

[17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/53

<addison> #47

<gb> [18]Action 47 make the CSSWG aware of Warichu (on frivoal)
due 2023-10-04

[18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/47

<addison> #43

<gb> [19]Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis
for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due
2023-09-18

[19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43

<addison> #39

<gb> [20]Action 39 develop best practice guidelines for
name-like fields (on aphillips) due 2023-08-31

[20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/39

addison: I'm waiting on reviews

<addison> close #39

<gb> Closed [21]action #39

[21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/39

<addison> #35

<gb> [22]Action 35 make the edits of CSS #5478 (on fantasai)
due 2023-08-30

[22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35

<addison> #33

<gb> [23]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
for further review (on aphillips)

[23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33

<addison> #18

<gb> [24]Action 18 Have informal explanation sessions about
counter style translations with csswg members (on frivoal,
fantasai)

[24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/18

<addison> #16

<gb> [25]Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for
i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips)

[25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/16

<addison> #12

<gb> [26]Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues
raised by google (on aphillips)

[26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12

<addison> #11

<gb> [27]Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which
are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal)

[27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/11

<addison> #8

<gb> [28]Action 8 Create pr against canvas formatted text (on
aphillips)

[28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8

<addison> #7

<gb> [29]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
r12a, bert-github)

[29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7

<addison> #5

<gb> [30]Action 5 Check into how to list questions at the top
of a digest and/or improve lang enablement communications (on
r12a)

[30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/5

<addison> #4

<gb> [31]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a)

[31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4

addison: anything we can do to jiggle the handle on the respec
action?

r12a: write some code

Info Share

r12a: someone sent me a document about Urdu
… it's time for me to create an Urdu Gap Analysis document
… and do some updates to the counter styles document as well
… although I have a number of questions about how that works
… the more I think about that, the more I wonder whether it's a
sensible thing to do
… I've done several already
… it takes quite a while
… I'm thinking maybe not doing a layout requirements document
… but just point to my document
… the layout requirements document contains no technology
specific information

r12a: my documents are dynamic
… they have all sorts of additional information which is maybe
not appropriate to go in the lreq document
… the lreq document is an evergreen document that describes how
the language works
… it's a big job, as xfq knows and atsushi knows

addison: is that something we could automate better?

r12a: no
… I'm not saying get rid of the ones that we have necessarily
… I'm just saying I don't think I'll try and write another lreq
document

martin: there was one unconference session about IDN

<addison> [32]https://unicode-org.slack.com/archives/
C064LLR2LQZ/p1699485049346849

[32] 
https://unicode-org.slack.com/archives/C064LLR2LQZ/p1699485049346849

martin: IDNA 2008 and UTS #46

<gb> [33]Action 46 [closed] read the string-meta explainer and
consider the new approach addison proposes (on xfq, r12a) due
2023-09-28

[33] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/46

martin: they still have different purposes
… but the essential difference that they had is mostly gone

addison: IETF has an exclusion process for characters
… and it's a long running process
… Mark Davis thinks that the exclusion process is a bad thing

martin: trying to catch up with new versions of Unicode is
definitely something that I want to tell the idea of people to
do

<addison> [34]https://docs.google.com/document/d/
1LY-L5X6AybvQuzX_4BnvVwC7zPZEXjVC/
edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=108765948792125311361&rtpof=true&sd=tr
ue

[34] 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LY-L5X6AybvQuzX_4BnvVwC7zPZEXjVC/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=108765948792125311361&rtpof=true&sd=true

RADAR Review

<addison> [35]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

[35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

addison: we have no new incoming requests
… we have nothing in review
… vc-json-schema is moved over to Awaiting comment resolution

Generic Font Families

<addison> [36]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/wiki/
Generic-font-families

[36] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/wiki/Generic-font-families

r12a: this is a long standing issue
… there are some font styles or writing styles that you might
be using in a particular language
… if the user doesn't have the font you specified, the browser
is going to fall back
… the generics we have at the moment are sort of stylish
… like serif and sans-serif
… during Geek Week I updated all the fonts of macOS and Windows
11, and Noto and SIL
… I grouped those fonts into scripts and different writing
styles
… Chris Lilley already proposed the addition of Kai as a
generic fallback
… but there are things like rashi and so on
… this list is based on the system fonts and Noto fonts in
particular
… for Hebrew there's not only rashi
… there are also cursive letters
… a bit further down, you can see that I'm suggesting that
users should be able to define which font gets used for a
particular generic
… just like you can choose what you want for serif and
sans-serif at the moment

<addison> xfq: useful page and in right direction; chris lilley
has already added some comments

martin: you showed this fonts dialogue
… if I choose Latin, I would still have these choices
… but what if I use Chinese

r12a: this is implementation specific and it's kind of up to
the browsers to an extent

<r12a> [37]https://r12a.github.io/scripts/fontlist/index.html

[37] https://r12a.github.io/scripts/fontlist/index.html

martin: what about Fangsong and Kai in Latin?

r12a: I don't really know the answer

martin: probably it would confuse most users in the Western
Hemisphere if they see kai and nastaliq
… it's definitely the browser makers to figure out whether they
want to do that
… if it's helpful to have Kai for Chinese and not for Latin
… then do we have that information to what extent can be
provided or not

addison: it's not really about language
… it's about setting up what your fallback is

addison: what's the next step?

r12a: probably need to copy it to all of the language
enablement groups
… it's getting quite a lot of attention from serious people on
Mastodon
… I don't think whether CSS really need to set up a registry
… so what's been happening so far is that Chris Lilley is gonna
add Kai and nastaliq

addison: should we formalize this more?
… this is just a wiki page at the moment

r12a: wiki makes it really easy to change things

addison: if our intention is to do a note eventually, we might
want to start setting up a repo and a shortname
… maybe roll it around in your head for a week

r12a: OK, I'll do that
… I expect that we will add more than these styles eventually
… but people will have to make a strong case for it
… if you have a registry anyone could suggest stuff to it
… you'd end up with a bit of a mess

addison: having it in the spec means higher level of friction
… you can always make a registry later

Received on Friday, 10 November 2023 03:04:45 UTC