- From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu>
- Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:13:52 -0500 (CDT)
- To: Srinivas Annam <annams@google.com>
- Cc: dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org, wai-xtech@w3.org
What is the use case for the visible menu to be different from the accessible name given to assistive technologies? Jon ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:28:28 -0700 >From: Srinivas Annam <annams@google.com> >Subject: Re: Using title for ARIA name is impractical! >To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu> >Cc: dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org, wai-xtech@w3.org > > I would like to provide an additional example in the > hopes of clarifying. Take the scenario I would have > used title which is also the case where I don't have > the text for acc name anywhere else. So by using > aria-labelledby for such case you would have to > serve the additional bytes which when multiplied by > the number of times used in your application and > repeated over millions of downloads it can make a > huge difference in application performance. > > Here I have code snippets for each case - > > <div class="ofscr" id="stid">My menu name</div> > <div role="menu" aria-labelledby="stid"> > ... items go here > </div> > > vs. > > <div role="menu" aria-name="My menu name"> > ... items go here > </div> > > From above you can see that there is a difference of > 48 bytes per usage, now multiply that by three. Now, > assume that you have 1M page servings / day, you get > 144MB of extra bytes to be served, all because I > couldn't use a title! :) Hope you get the idea. > > Thanks, > Srinivas > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Srinivas Annam > <annams@google.com> wrote: > > Jon, > > My point is aria-labelledby is a good work around > but we should not *forced* to use it all the time. > Additionally, I can not imagine names of menus and > listboxes lying around in all of today's practical > applications. > > I think we all agreed that because of the tooltip > overload title has become unusable, given that I > am proposing that we create an alternate and > equivalent, such as aria-name in its place. > Srinivas > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:02 AM, Jon Gunderson > <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote: > > Srinivas, > > Personally I like aria-labelledby by since it is > very flexible to reuse content already on the > page and could actually be configurable if the > web application, if the developer provides an > interface for the user to configure what is > included in the aria-labelledby list of IDREFs. > > Example: > > http://test.cita.uiuc.edu/aria/grid/grid2.php > > Jon > > ---- Original message ---- > >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:14:02 -0700 > >From: Srinivas Annam <annams@google.com> > >Subject: Re: Using title for ARIA name is > impractical! > >To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu> > >Cc: dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org, > wai-xtech@w3.org > > > > Let me clarify this, my question is directly > towards > > roles that support title as a way of > providing acc > > name -- getting name from child content or > > aria-labelledby are different use cases > which are > > not at discussion here. Given the side > effect of > > title to provide a tooltip for mouse hover > can there > > be or should there be an alternate > mechanism? Why > > not have aria-name which can provide the > same > > purpose but without the side effect? > > > > -- Srinivas > > > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Jon > Gunderson > > <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote: > > > > Srinivas, > > > > The "option" role will use the DOM subtree > text > > nodes to generate an accessible name for > each > > option. > > Jon > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:02:41 -0700 > > >From: Srinivas Annam <annams@google.com> > > >Subject: Using title for ARIA name is > > impractical! > > >To: dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org > > >Cc: wai-xtech@w3.org > > > > > >In my continuing series of ARIA > discoveries :) > > > > > >The current recommendation requires the > usage of > > title attribute to provide > > >a name for widgets of the following > roles: > > combobox, grid, group, img, list, > > >listbox, menu, menubar, progressbar, > radiogroup, > > slider, spinbutton, > > >textbox, tree, treegrid. > > > > > >Now imagine a listbox or a tree with lot > of > > visible child elements and that > > >each of these widgets (lisbox and > options) are > > being created using a div. > > >The outerdiv for the listbox having it's > role as > > "listbox" and each of the > > >list items having a role of "option". > Now, assume > > that the listbox has a > > >title defined on it (so it could provide > an acc > > name per current > > >recommendation) like below: > > > > > ><div role="listbox" title="My Own > Listbox" > > >aria-activedescendant="listbox1-1"> > > > <div role="option" id="listbox1-1" > > class="selected" > > >aria-selected="true">item 1</div> > > > <div role="option" id="listbox1-2" > >item > > 2</div> > > > <div role="option" id="listbox1-3" > >item > > 3</div> > > ></div> > > > > > >At this time you would notice that > hovering over > > with mouse on anywhere over > > >the listbox area (including where the > individual > > items are shown) would show > > >a tooltip with the title. This is coming > in as a > > side effect of browser > > >usage of title for the tooltip. Given > this major > > UI implication, IMO, this > > >makes the usage of title to get an acc > name on > > the roles mentioned highly > > >impractical. I would like to hear other > thoughts > > or ideas. Or if someone > > >knows a way of getting ARIA name without > using a > > title. > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Srinivas > > > > > >-- > > >Srinivas Annam > > >Software Engineer, Accessibility > > >Google, Inc. > > >Cell: 408.898.4928 > > >Email: annams@google.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >dev-accessibility mailing list > > >dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org > > > >https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility > > Jon Gunderson, Ph.D. > > Coordinator Information Technology > Accessibility > > Disability Resources and Educational > Services > > > > Rehabilitation Education Center > > Room 86 > > 1207 S. Oak Street > > Champaign, Illinois 61821 > > > > Voice: (217) 244-5870 > > > > WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ > > WWW: > https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/ > > > > -- > > Srinivas Annam > > Software Engineer, Accessibility > > Google, Inc. > > Cell: 408.898.4928 > > Email: annams@google.com > Jon Gunderson, Ph.D. > Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility > Disability Resources and Educational Services > > Rehabilitation Education Center > Room 86 > 1207 S. Oak Street > Champaign, Illinois 61821 > > Voice: (217) 244-5870 > > WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ > WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/ > > -- > Srinivas Annam > Software Engineer, Accessibility > Google, Inc. > Cell: 408.898.4928 > Email: annams@google.com > > -- > Srinivas Annam > Software Engineer, Accessibility > Google, Inc. > Cell: 408.898.4928 > Email: annams@google.com Jon Gunderson, Ph.D. Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility Disability Resources and Educational Services Rehabilitation Education Center Room 86 1207 S. Oak Street Champaign, Illinois 61821 Voice: (217) 244-5870 WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
Received on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 14:15:39 UTC