Re: Using title for ARIA name is impractical!

Jon,

My point is aria-labelledby is a good work around but we should not *forced*
to use it all the time. Additionally, I can not imagine names of menus and
listboxes lying around in all of today's practical applications.

I think we all agreed that because of the tooltip overload title has become
unusable, given that I am proposing that we create an alternate and
equivalent, such as aria-name in its place.

Srinivas

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:02 AM, Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote:

> Srinivas,
>
> Personally I like aria-labelledby by since it is very flexible to reuse
> content already on the page and could actually be configurable if the web
> application, if the developer provides an interface for the user to
> configure what is included in the aria-labelledby list of IDREFs.
>
> Example:
>
> http://test.cita.uiuc.edu/aria/grid/grid2.php
>
> Jon
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:14:02 -0700
> >From: Srinivas Annam <annams@google.com>
> >Subject: Re: Using title for ARIA name is impractical!
> >To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu>
> >Cc: dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org, wai-xtech@w3.org
> >
> >   Let me clarify this, my question is directly towards
> >   roles that support title as a way of providing acc
> >   name -- getting name from child content or
> >   aria-labelledby are different use cases which are
> >   not at discussion here. Given the side effect of
> >   title to provide a tooltip for mouse hover can there
> >   be or should there be an alternate mechanism? Why
> >   not have aria-name which can provide the same
> >   purpose but without the side effect?
> >
> >   -- Srinivas
> >
> >   On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Jon Gunderson
> >   <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote:
> >
> >     Srinivas,
> >
> >     The "option" role will use the DOM subtree text
> >     nodes to generate an accessible name for each
> >     option.
> >     Jon
> >
> >     ---- Original message ----
> >     >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:02:41 -0700
> >     >From: Srinivas Annam <annams@google.com>
> >     >Subject: Using title for ARIA name is
> >     impractical!
> >     >To: dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org
> >     >Cc: wai-xtech@w3.org
> >     >
> >     >In my continuing series of ARIA discoveries :)
> >     >
> >     >The current recommendation requires the usage of
> >     title attribute to provide
> >     >a name for widgets of the following roles:
> >     combobox, grid, group, img, list,
> >     >listbox, menu, menubar, progressbar, radiogroup,
> >     slider, spinbutton,
> >     >textbox, tree, treegrid.
> >     >
> >     >Now imagine a listbox or a tree with lot of
> >     visible child elements and that
> >     >each of these widgets (lisbox and options) are
> >     being created using a div.
> >     >The outerdiv for the listbox having it's role as
> >     "listbox" and each of the
> >     >list items having a role of "option". Now, assume
> >     that the listbox has a
> >     >title defined on it (so it could provide an acc
> >     name per current
> >     >recommendation) like below:
> >     >
> >     ><div role="listbox" title="My Own Listbox"
> >     >aria-activedescendant="listbox1-1">
> >     >  <div role="option" id="listbox1-1"
> >     class="selected"
> >     >aria-selected="true">item 1</div>
> >     >  <div role="option" id="listbox1-2" >item
> >     2</div>
> >     >  <div role="option" id="listbox1-3" >item
> >     3</div>
> >     ></div>
> >     >
> >     >At this time you would notice that hovering over
> >     with mouse on anywhere over
> >     >the listbox area (including where the individual
> >     items are shown) would show
> >     >a tooltip with the title. This is coming in as a
> >     side effect of browser
> >     >usage of title for the tooltip. Given this major
> >     UI implication, IMO, this
> >     >makes the usage of title to get an acc name on
> >     the roles mentioned highly
> >     >impractical. I would like to hear other thoughts
> >     or ideas. Or if someone
> >     >knows a way of getting ARIA name without using a
> >     title.
> >     >
> >     >Thanks,
> >     >Srinivas
> >     >
> >     >--
> >     >Srinivas Annam
> >     >Software Engineer, Accessibility
> >     >Google, Inc.
> >     >Cell: 408.898.4928
> >     >Email: annams@google.com
> >     >_______________________________________________
> >     >dev-accessibility mailing list
> >     >dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org
> >     >https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
> >     Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
> >     Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
> >     Disability Resources and Educational Services
> >
> >     Rehabilitation Education Center
> >     Room 86
> >     1207 S. Oak Street
> >     Champaign, Illinois 61821
> >
> >     Voice: (217) 244-5870
> >
> >     WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
> >     WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
> >
> >   --
> >   Srinivas Annam
> >   Software Engineer, Accessibility
> >   Google, Inc.
> >   Cell: 408.898.4928
> >   Email: annams@google.com
> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
> Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
> Disability Resources and Educational Services
>
> Rehabilitation Education Center
> Room 86
> 1207 S. Oak Street
> Champaign, Illinois 61821
>
> Voice: (217) 244-5870
>
> WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/
> WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
>
>
>


-- 
Srinivas Annam
Software Engineer, Accessibility
Google, Inc.
Cell: 408.898.4928
Email: annams@google.com