- From: Armony ALTINIER - Koena <armony@koena.net>
- Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 17:48:42 +0200
- To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
- Message-ID: <5da7ceef-cd62-9974-467e-e99ae05dc0fc@koena.net>
Thanks a lot to you both Nick and Marc, your sources are very explicit indeed. Warm Regards, Armony Le 17/10/2023 à 12:09, Nick Bromley a écrit : > > Take a look at the comment in 4.3.1 > <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#terminology> under point 2: > > “By default, assistive technologies do not relay hidden information, > but an author can explicitly override that and include hidden text as > part of the accessible name or accessible description by using > aria-labelledby or aria-describedby.” > > And in this context ‘hidden’ means “that the element is not visible, > perceivable, or interactive to any user.” > > *From:*Armony ALTINIER - Koena <armony@koena.net> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 17, 2023 10:57 AM > *To:* w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > *Subject:* Re: Question about restitution of aria-describedby > > Thanks a lot for your answers Marc and Nick. > > But I am still confused. I read the Accessible Name and Description > Computation, §4.2 > <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#mapping_additional_nd_description> > and §4.3 > <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#mapping_additional_nd_te>, and I > still don't see anything about the case where the description is > properly hidden with aria-describedby or aria-hidden=true. > > And when I read the description of aria-hidden attribute in the > WAI-ARIA 1.2 doc <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.2/#aria-hidden>, it > is clear that the hidden text is not supposed to be exposed to an > accessibility API. > > Does anyone have a specific doc about this case? It still appears to > me as a bad practice to link a description to a text with > aria-hidden=true or display:none. But it seems it works, so maybe it > is supposed to be working. It just doesn't make sense to me. > > Armony > > Le 17/10/2023 à 11:08, Marc Haunschild a écrit : > > It also has a strong use case, that hidden text is not announced - > so you can switch it by changing the display property value with > JavaScript to control which (of several) texts should be read - > for example depending on user input - to name just one example. > Especially because we have CSS styles to effectively hide texts > only visually. For me this is a very inconsistent approach and I > really hate it. > > But it is, like it is and that's how we have to use it... > > -- > Mit freundlichen Grüßen > > Marc Haunschild - he / him - #gernPerDu > Prüfstelle im BIK-BITV-Prüfverbund > > Marc Haunschild Accessibility Consulting > Sonnenhof 32 > 53119 Bonn > > Telefon: 0170 8 64 00 63 > Web: https://Accessibility.Consulting > <https://Accessibility.Consulting> https://mhis.de > Email: Marc.Haunschild@Accessibility.Consulting > > > > Am 17.10.2023 um 10:43 schrieb Marc Haunschild (Accessibility > Consulting) <marc.haunschild@accessibility.consulting> > <mailto:marc.haunschild@accessibility.consulting>: > > Hi Armony, > > This behavior is typical for most (all?) screenreaders. I was > also surprised when I heard that for the first time. > > I can’t remember which, but I think one SR-browser combination > does not read the hidden texts and it’s considered a bug. > > You might want to check the computation of accname if you want > to know more about the spec, if you’re not familiar with it. > But as far as I remember it is not about hidden text. Maybe > this is way sr behave the way they do: > > Accessible Name and Description Computation 1.1 > <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/> > > w3.org <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/> > > > > <favicon.ico> <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/> > > -- > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen > > Marc Haunschild > > https://Accessibility.Consulting > <https://Accessibility.Consulting> > > > > Am 17.10.2023 um 10:36 schrieb Armony ALTINIER - Koena > <armony@koena.net> <mailto:armony@koena.net>: > > > > Hi everyone, > > I have a question about how aria-describedby is supposed > to be rendered or not by screen readers. > > I'm submitting this test file (see attachement) with 3 cases: > > 1. text with aria-describedby is linked to non-hidden text > 2. text with aria-describedby is linked to text hidden > with aria-hidden > 3. text with aria-descrivbedby is linked with text hidden > with display:none. > > > In case 1, it is normal for the text to be rendered. It > seems strange to me that this also works on cases 2 and 3, > whereas it works fine with NVDA. > > Do you have any documentation about this behavior? Is it > "normal"? If so, I'm having trouble understanding the > logic. If it's not normal, and there are screen reader > developers among you, I'd love a little explanation of > this choice (I'll go fishing for info elsewhere if need be). > > Many thanks in advance for any insight and documentation :) > > Best Regards, > Armony > > -- > > Portrait Armony Altinier > LinkedIn Armony Altinier > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/armonyaltinier/> Twitter > Armony Altinier <https://twitter.com/armonyaltinier> > > > > *Armony Altinier * > Fondatrice et Présidente *|*Koena > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *Téléphone * : +33 (0)9 72 63 21 28 > *Site web * : koena.net <https://koena.net/> > *Twitter * : @koenaFR <https://twitter.com/koenaFR> > > /Découvrez l'ensemble des *adresses mails utiles chez > Koena et les personnes associées* > <https://koena.net/?page_id=14196>. / > > <demo-aria-describedby-EN.html> > > -- > > Portrait Armony Altinier > LinkedIn Armony Altinier <https://www.linkedin.com/in/armonyaltinier/> > Twitter Armony Altinier <https://twitter.com/armonyaltinier> > > > > *Armony Altinier * > Fondatrice et Présidente *|*Koena > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *Téléphone * : +33 (0)9 72 63 21 28 > *Site web * : koena.net <https://koena.net> > *Twitter * : @koenaFR <https://twitter.com/koenaFR> > > /Découvrez l'ensemble des *adresses mails utiles chez Koena et les > personnes associées* <https://koena.net/?page_id=14196>. / > -- Portrait Armony Altinier LinkedIn Armony Altinier <https://www.linkedin.com/in/armonyaltinier/> Twitter Armony Altinier <https://twitter.com/armonyaltinier> Armony Altinier Fondatrice et Présidente | Koena ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Téléphone : +33 (0)9 72 63 21 28 Site web : koena.net <https://koena.net> Twitter : @koenaFR <https://twitter.com/koenaFR> Découvrez l'ensemble des adresses mails utiles chez Koena et les personnes associées <https://koena.net/?page_id=14196>.
Received on Tuesday, 17 October 2023 15:48:50 UTC