Re: Rethinking the necessities of ARIA landmark role "main" and HTML5 <main> element

Hi Ian,

>Obviously whether web authors do this or not or do so in a sensible way is
another matter, but in theory I believe it is better to be able to indicate
main content explicitly than not providing a mechanism for enabling them to
do so at all.

The data and research that went into development of the <main> element clearly
indicates that the practice of authors identifying the main content of a
page is a common and robust markup pattern [1]. The use case and rationale
document may also be helpful [2]


[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Oct/0109.html
[2] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Sfaulkne/main-usecases#Introduction

with regards

--
SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>


On 26 March 2013 09:42, Ian Sharpe <themanxsharpy@gmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
> While I do understand the argument for believing the role="main" or <main>
> element to be redundant I personally do not agree with this argument.
>
>
>
> In particular I would be interested to know the justification for the
> following statement:
>
>
>
> "For "main" specifically, nothing is needed, since what users want is not
> to jump to a specific place in the document but to jump _past_
> uninteresting content in the document."
>
>
>
> I use a screen reader myself and while I do want to be able to skip over
> uninteresting content, I would also like to be able to go directly to
> what the author of a site has designated as the main content and
> suspect I'm not the only one with this view.
>
>
>
> Even if a page is marked up semantically well using the new HTML5
> structural elements or ARIA landmarks, I still might have to hit my screen
> readers landmark hotkey several times before I reach the "interesting"
> content which is just tedious and time consuming, particularly when
> visiting an unfamiliar site.
>
>
>
> I do appreciate that in theory it should be possible to determine the main
> content by simply removing the "uninteresting" content, but as was
> suggested by another member, I feel that this approach is more likely to
> lead to problems than simply providing authors with the ability to
> explicitly designate the main content.
>
>
>
> Obviously whether web authors do this or not or do so in a sensible way is
> another matter, but in theory I believe it is better to be able to indicate
> main content explicitly than not providing a mechanism for enabling them to
> do so at all.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 26 March 2013 07:25
> *To:* w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> *Cc:* Ian Yang; Ian Hickson
> *Subject:* Re: Rethinking the necessities of ARIA landmark role "main"
> and HTML5 <main> element
>
> Does Hixie's response make it any clearer to anyone why role=main or the
> <main> element is redundant?
>
> If so please explain.
>
> with regards
>
> --
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>
>
> On 26 March 2013 05:16, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013, Ian Yang wrote:
>>  > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Mark it as such. For example, sidebars using <aside>, navigation
>> > > blocks using <nav>, footers using <footer>, etc.
>> >
>> > I'm sorry, but I don't get it.
>> >
>> > Assume there is a user who is not interested in the <header>, <nav> and
>> > <aside>. How could these markups help the user jump past themselves?
>>
>> The same way a landmark role would, or the way <h1>s would. The user agent
>> or accessibility tool would provide a user interface to enable the user to
>> navigate the document accordingly. For example, it's common for user
>> agents to allow the user to jump to specific headings by pressing a key
>> combination, or to skip to the next paragraph (skipping past any content
>> in the current paragraph) by pressing a key combination. The same is
>> possible for landmark roles or for skipping past uninteresting sections.
>>
>> --
>> Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
>> http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
>> Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
>>
>>
>