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RE: Issue 4 Proposed Resolution (was: why no doc type declarati on and PIs in SOAP)

From: Champion, Mike <Mike.Champion@SoftwareAG-USA.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:08:00 -0400
Message-ID: <9A4FC925410C024792B85198DF1E97E401736A43@usmsg03.sagus.com>
To: xml-dist-app@w3.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah_Mendelsohn@lotus.com [mailto:Noah_Mendelsohn@lotus.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 10:56 AM
> To: Champion, Mike
> Cc: xml-dist-app@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Issue 4 Proposed Resolution (was: why no doc 
> type declarati
> on and PIs in SOAP)

> >> and there is no XML mechanism to say "you cannot
> >> put a DTD or PI in an instance for this application.
> I respectfully disagree.  The specification for any XML 
> application can  tell you what its vocabulary supports.  

Maybe I was unclear, or I'm missing something.  If my DTD or 
schema doesn't have any attributes defined, then that is
an "XML mechanism" to say "you can't use attributes in an
instance for this application."  Right?  

All I'm saying is that there is no equivalent way in to say "don't send me
no stinkin' PIs or DTD internal subsets," in a way that an XML parser can
enforce, but I wish there were. We *can* say this in the natural language of
our application specification (SOAP 1.x), so I don't think we disagree on
anything substantive.  Come to think of it, I doubt if very many SOAP
processors formally validate incoming messages against the schema anyway ...
do they?

 If my vocabulary doesn't use 
> attributes, are you telling me I have to accept attributes?  
> Surely there 
> is some taste involved.   I would strongly discourage, for 
> example, an 
> application supporting:
>         <A>
>         </A>
> but not
>         <A/>.
> Certainly the infoset makes clear that these are syntactic 
> sugar for the 
> same thing.  I don't think that's true of the presence of 
> DTD's.  Like 
> attributes, it's a feature of XML that should be visible to 
> an application 
> or tool that cares, IMO.   So, while XML itself surely won't 
> reject the 
> DTD, I see no reason why the specification for an application 
> of XML, such 
> as SOAP,  can't say "fault at my level when you see one."  
> Why is that any 
> different than saying:  "fault when the value of this 
> attribute is >100". 
> XML surely allows that, but your application doesn't have to.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> Noah Mendelsohn                                    Voice: 
> 1-617-693-4036
> Lotus Development Corp.                            Fax: 1-617-693-8676
> One Rogers Street
> Cambridge, MA 02142
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
Received on Monday, 1 October 2001 15:08:05 UTC

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