W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > xml-dist-app@w3.org > December 1999

What should we discuss first?

From: Tim Schweitzer <timster@nortelnetworks.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:45:33 -0600
Message-ID: <050b01bf4bfc$ba6842a0$6a1cc72f@us.nortel.com>
To: xmlprotocols <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Hi Dan (and others),

I'm not familiar with the TIP or WDDX systems (and will try to read up on them soon), but I thought I could jump-start discussion...  

First, I think we need to determine what our scope is.  I think that (for the moment at least) alternative encoding schemes (like Binary WML) might be outside of our scope.  (I also don't know CORBA, so I would be happy if that was outside our scope too. ;-)

I think there are several very different (although complimentary) technologies that can benefit (and are) from using XML:

One use of XML is in specifying the format and/or content of data sent inside "special-purpose" protocols, like IOTP or WebDAV.  In these situations XML is used to specify a specific type of transaction.

Another use of XML is in specifying the format and/or content of data sent inside "all-purpose" or generic protocols.  It appears like WDDX and ICE fit into this category.

Finally, XML can be used to specify the format and/or content of procedure calls to enable RPC-like systems.  SOAP and XMLRPC clearly fit into this category.  (I am most interested in this area.)  I think CORBA and more sophisticated object systems also fit here.

Any others?

I guess the first obvious question would be "are there any features or attributes that all of these systems share (besides using XML)?"  Are these shared features or attributes a significant part of each system?

At a minimum, it seems like many of these systems could benefit by sharing a core set of standard XML data types.  If so, then maybe the discussion could focus on specifying this.

If we determine that each of these systems could be built on a common XML framework, maybe that could be the focus of the discussion.

Maybe discussion could focus on serialization of XML, or transport issues?

Finally, maybe we will agree that a new, extensible, W3C-blessed data exchange system is needed.

Tim Schweitzer                     tim.schweitzer@nortelnetworks.com
Enterprise Solutions               ph: ESN 667-8151 (612-932-8151)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
To: <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 4:48 PM
Subject: xml-dist-app: XML, Protocols, and Distributed Applications

> In the Web Standards Update session
> http://www.gca.org/attend/1999_conferences/xml_99/xml99_keynote.htm#web
> at XML '99 in Philadelphia
> http://www.gca.org/attend/1999_conferences/xml_99/default.htm
> a questioner asked:
> Q: Have the W3C plans for a standard for web-based asynchronous
> messaging
>      providing such functionality as is found in a typical MOM (such as
> IBM's
>      MQSERIES)? 
> to which my answer was that W3C had started planning a workshop
> on XML in distributed applications, i.e. RPC and inter-application
> messaging, but we hadn't found a critical mass of resources for
> the workshop.
> I mentioned that I was looking forward to
> XTech 2000 27 Feb - 2 Mar 2000, San Jose, California
> http://www.gca.org/attend/2000_conferences/xtech_2000/
> and
> WWW9, Amsterdam, May 15 - 19, 2000
> http://www9.org/
> as possible venues to continue the discussion.
> There were sign-up sheets for lunch table discussions, and
> Tim Schweitzer of Nortel Technology claimed table #17 for
> "XML and Protocols" or something like that, presumably
> to continue this discussion.
> After a lively chat about
> Transaction Internet Protocol Version 3.0 
> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2371.txt
> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2372.txt
> Information & Content Exchange (ICE)
> http://www.gca.org/ice/default.htm
> WAP Binary XML Content Format
> http://www.w3.org/1999/06/NOTE-wbxml-19990624
> Simple Object Access Protocol (SOAP)
> http://www.develop.com/soap/
> http://www.msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapspec-v1.asp
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-box-http-soap-01.txt
> http://www.xmlrpc.com/
> WDDX.org: Web Distributed Data Exchange 
> http://www.wddx.org/
> and the like, I agreed to create a mailing list to continue the
> discussion,
> and make a pointer to it from
> http://www.w3.org/XML/
> So... here we are. I have copied the few people whom I can remember
> from the lunch discussion, plus various people who have contacted
> me about this sort of stuff in the recent past.
> I didn't subscribe anybody else, but anyone may subscribe;
> to subscribe, send a message ala:
> To: xml-dist-app-request@w3.org 
> Subject: subscribe
> Hypertext archives are available to the world at:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-dist-app/
> To unsubscribe, send a message ala:
> To: xml-dist-app-request@w3.org 
> Subject: unsubscribe
> Full administrative details are available at:
> http://www.w3.org/Mail/Request
> -- 
> Dan Connolly
> http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
Received on Tuesday, 21 December 1999 16:44:59 UTC

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