W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-zig@w3.org > February 2002

RE: 2 simple questions (?)

From: Lunau Carrol <carrol.lunau@nlc-bnc.ca>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:55:54 -0500
Message-ID: <890459A65CB1D2119FC00008C7BAC619022F9BF1@exchange2>
To: "'Stephen Owen'" <sowen@silverplatter.com>, Liv Aasa Holm <Liv.A.Holm@jbi.hio.no>, Madeleine Stovel <BL.MDS@RLG.ORG>, Pieter Van Lierop <pvanlierop@geac.fr>, www-zig <www-zig@w3.org>
When we developed Bath we did not feel that we could mandate AACR2 since
there are parts of the world which may follow their own cataloguing
code;however, in an Anglo American environment that was certainly the intent
i.e., last name, first name. In a sense we were guilty of propagating what
we were trying to solve -- imprecision. In version 2 this problem will
disappear since the normalized searches have been removed. The draft is now
posted at www.nlc-bnc.ca/bath
Carrol Lunau
Bath Profile Maintenance Agency
National Library of Canada
Ottawa, ON Canada
Tel: 613-996-3262        Fax: 613-947-2916
email: carrol.lunau@nlc-bnc.ca


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Owen [mailto:sowen@silverplatter.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:33 AM
To: Liv Aasa Holm; Madeleine Stovel; Pieter Van Lierop; www-zig
Subject: Re: 2 simple questions (?)


I also was not sure what was necessary in order to comply with the Bath
Profile which says:

"Makes no assumption about whether the search term is in an authorized or
unauthorized form (i.e., makes no attempt to reprocess the term before
attempting a match against the specified indexes that contain names in
authorized form that may have been established according to cataloging rules
such as AACR2 ). "

(Bath Profile: 5.A.0.1. Author Search - Precision Match for Established Name
Heading)

This appears to suggest that the Z3950 does nothing to modify the search
string and that the database MAY follow the AACR2 rules, but is not obliged
to do so.

Steve Owen.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Liv Aasa Holm" <Liv.A.Holm@jbi.hio.no>
To: "Madeleine Stovel" <BL.MDS@RLG.ORG>; "Pieter Van Lierop"
<pvanlierop@geac.fr>; "www-zig" <www-zig@w3.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: RE: 2 simple questions (?)


> Peter,
> in all our implementations so far we have interpreted "name normalized" as
> <last name>, <first name> with one _OR MORE_ spaces between the two.
> The critic to this has been: "This is the normalized form in most of the
> western world, but not in the world as a whole".
>
> It has never been any difficulties in reducing several spaces to one space
> between the two parts.
> I have the impression tha this interpretation of "normalized form" comes
> from AACR 2.  Is that correct?
>
> Liv
>
> ===== Original Message from Pieter Van Lierop <pvanlierop@geac.fr> at
> 20.02.02 08:39
> >Lennie,
> >This is typically an example of why Z39.50 without profiles is so
hopelessly
> >complex in interoperability issues. The definition you cite says in fact:
> >the server can do what it wants. So if the server says: For me a
normalized
> >name is a first name followed by 5 dots and then the last name: That is
> >perfectly legal Z39.50.
> >
> >I will re-formulate my question:
> >What would a normalized name "normally" be:
> ><LastName> space <FirstName>
> ><LastName> comma <FirstName>
> ><LastName> comma space<FirstName>
> >or should the server support all of these?
> >
> >For example, it is not clear to me what the Bath profile says.
> >
> >Pieter
> >> -----Message d'origine-----
> >> De : Madeleine Stovel [mailto:BL.MDS@RLG.ORG]
> >> Envoyé : mardi 19 février 2002 22:11
> >> À : www-zig@w3.org
> >> Objet : 2 simple questions (?)
> >>
> >>
> >> REPLY TO 02/19/02 06:15 FROM WWW-ZIG@W3.ORG: 2 simple questions (?)
> >>
> >> >Dear zig-gers,
> >> >2 simple question but I did not find the answers on the Z39.50 pages:
> >> >
> >> >1. normalized name
> >> >Is there a concensus about what a normalized name should be?
> >> (Structure
> >> >attribute 106 "name (normalized)")
> >> >The standard says nothing about this.
> >> >The bath profile references the ATS-1 profile which
> >> references AACR2 rules.
> >> >(http://lcweb.loc.gov/z3950/agency/profiles/ats.html)
> >> >
> >> >Maybe we should make an implementor agreement that it should be:
> >> ><LastName>,<FirstName>
> >> >with 0 or more spaces between <LastName> and comma, and
> >> between comma and
> >> ><FirstName>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Pieter van Lierop
> >> >Geac
> >> Pieter,
> >>
> >> The bib-1 semantics imply that that's what a normalized name should
> >> be.
> >>
> >>         Name             101    A name search term that is
> >> structured in a
> >>         (normalized)            particular order (e.g., last_name,
> >>                                 first_name).  The resulting
> >> term is subject to
> >>                                 special matching rules on the
> >> target system
> >>                                 that differ from those
> >> applied to names
> >>                                 structured as phrases or
> >> unstructured names.
> >>
> >> I think what's in ATS-1 is more or less the consensus, although the
> >> consensus was also not to use ATS-1, more or less.
> >>
> >> -- Lennie
> >>
> >> To:  WWW-ZIG@W3.ORG
> >>
> ===== Comments by Liv.A.Holm@jbi.hio.no (Liv Aasa Holm) at 20.02.02 08:51
>
> *******************************************************
> Liv A. Holm
> associate professor
> Oslo University college
> faculty of journalism, library and information science
> tel. +47-22-45-27-77
> fax.:+47-22-45-26-05
> *******************************************************
>
>
Received on Thursday, 21 February 2002 10:56:09 UTC

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