RE: 'obtain' in the sense of 'succeed' is archaic

Checking this at http://www.m-w.com/ (my copy of Webster is at home,
and I don't know which version it is) gives (some of the stuff
may be garbled because I copied into a Japanese mailer):

Main Entry: obキtain
                      Pronunciation: &b-'tAn, 臙-
                      Function: verb
                      Etymology: Middle English obteinen, from Middle 
French & Latin;
                      Middle French obtenir, from Latin obtinEre to hold on 
to, possess,
                      obtain, from ob- in the way + tenEre to hold -- more 
at THIN
                      Date: 15th century
                      transitive senses : to gain or attain usually by 
planned action or effort
                      intransitive senses
                      1 archaic : SUCCEED
                      2 : to be generally recognized or established : PREVAIL
                      - obキtainキabilキiキty /-"tA-n&-'bi-l&-tE/ noun
                      - obキtainキable /-'tA-n&-b&l/ adjective
                      - obキtainキer noun
                      - obキtainキment /-'tAn-m&nt/ noun

The second, non-archaic intransitive sense reads:

to be generally recognized or established : PREVAIL

I have very serious doubts that this is exactly what it it
is supposed to say in the spec.

Moving the issue to a somewhat higher level, I think it is
inappropriate, for a W3C specification, to use words with
meanings that are not well documented (well documented
here meaning that it is documented not just in one version
of one dictionary, but in enough versions of well-known
dictionaries to avoid repeated lookups).

I do in no way insist on 'succeed', if something better
can be found.

Regards,   Martin.

At 00/05/30 12:38 -0700, Andrew Layman wrote:
>My copy of Webster's (Seventh Collegiate) defines "obtain" in this sense to
>be "come into force or being."  It does not classify it as archaic.  This
>definition accords with the usage found in the schemas specification.
>
>While I agree that intransitive "obtain" is slightly technical, it is hardly
>unclear and it means exactly what needs to be expressed.  By contrast, I
>would find many of the sentances in the specification more confusing if the
>word "obtain" were simply replaced by "succeed".

Received on Wednesday, 31 May 2000 01:09:25 UTC