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RE: [Clarifications] Part 2 Datatypes

From: nchen <nchen@webMethods.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:26:34 -0400
To: <asirv@webMethods.com>, <petsa@us.ibm.com>
Cc: <w3c-xml-schema-ig@w3.org>, "'Biron,Paul V'" <Paul.V.Biron@kp.org>, <www-xml-schema-comments@w3.org>
Message-ID: <000201bfbb5d$4ad32f10$2033010a@webmethods.com>
According to ISO 8601, there are four ways to express a period of time. The
timeDuration datatype uses the second way, which is expressed "in one or
more specific components but not associated with any specific start or end".
([ISO 8601] section 5.5.1)

There is no facet in timeDuration specifying the starting point of the time
period and as we can see from Asir's example that the starting point is not
necessarily known. Therefore, I have a impression that the definition of
timeDuration is incomplete. If we don't have an unambiguous definition of
year and month, this data type is simply not usable.

All the best,
Ninggang

-----Original Message-----
From: Asir S Vedamuthu [mailto:asirv@webmethods.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 2:19 PM
To: petsa@us.ibm.com
Cc: Ningang chen; w3c-xml-schema-ig@w3.org; Biron,Paul V
Subject: RE: [Clarifications] Part 2 Datatypes


Thanks Ashok.

Here is a simple use case -

<project>
	<title>Demolish I-95 and build it from scratch</title>
	<startDate>unknown</startDate>
	<duration xsi:type="duration">P30Y45M55D</duration>
</project>

&

<simpleType name="duration" base="dt:timeDuration">
	<minInclusive value="P0Y40M25D"/>
	<maxInclusive value="P35Y53M22DT45H23M68S"/>
</simpleType>

All the best,

Asir S Vedamuthu
webMethods, Inc.
(Phone) 703-460-2513 (Fax) 703-460-2513 (E-mail) asirv@webmethods.com
URL: http://www.webmethods.com
-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-xml-schema-ig-request@w3.org
[mailto:w3c-xml-schema-ig-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of petsa@us.ibm.com
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 10:42 AM
To: asirv@webmethods.com
Cc: Biron,Paul V; w3c-xml-schema-ig@w3.org; Ningang chen
Subject: RE: [Clarifications] Part 2 Datatypes


You wrote:
> ---- Item 2 ----
> AM> The number of days in the month or year will depend on when the
> AM> period occurs.  We take the position that this is always known
> AM> and, thus, there is no ambiguity but would like to see
counterexamples.
> AM> ISO8601 seconf edition, does say in 3.15 that "in certain
applications
> AM> a month is regarded as a unit of time of 30 days".

> However, 'period' is not a facet or constraining facet of timeDuration.
Need
> more clarification.

My contention is that a duration will always be used relative to a
particular start time. This will determine how many days in a month etc.
If you have a use case where this is not the case, I would be very
interested in hearing about it.

> ---- Item 3, 4 & 5 ----

> Cool. Then item 3, 4 & 5 call for _editorial corrections_ to Part 2
> Datatypes spec.
Paul, can you take care of these?  Thanks!

All the best,


All the best, Ashok


"Asir S Vedamuthu" <asirv@webmethods.com> on 05/03/2000 03:09:59 PM

Please respond to <asirv@webmethods.com>

To:   Ashok Malhotra/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
cc:   "Biron,Paul V" <Paul.V.Biron@kp.org>, <w3c-xml-schema-ig@w3.org>,
      "Ningang chen" <nchen@webmethods.com>
Subject:  RE: [Clarifications] Part 2 Datatypes



Thanks for your quick reply.

---- Item 1 ----
AM> Integer is derived from decimal by setting scale=0
AM> The PSV infoset for derived datatypes indicates all the facets
AM> of the base datatype and their fixed values

If so, integer datatype has -

(a) facets: precision, scale, pattern, enumeration, maxInclusive,
maxExclusive, minInclusive and minExclusive
(b) constraining facets: pattern, enumeration, maxInclusive, maxExclusive,
minInclusive and minExclusive

---- Item 2 ----
AM> The number of days in the month or year will depend on when the
AM> period occurs.  We take the position that this is always known
AM> and, thus, there is no ambiguity but would like to see counterexamples.
AM> ISO8601 seconf edition, does say in 3.15 that "in certain applications
AM> a month is regarded as a unit of time of 30 days".

However, 'period' is not a facet or constraining facet of timeDuration.
Need
more clarification.

---- Item 3, 4 & 5 ----

Cool. Then item 3, 4 & 5 call for _editorial corrections_ to Part 2
Datatypes spec.

All the best,

Asir S Vedamuthu
webMethods, Inc.
(Phone) 703-460-2513 (Fax) 703-460-2513 (E-mail) asirv@webmethods.com
URL: http://www.webmethods.com

-----Original Message-----
From: petsa@us.ibm.com [mailto:petsa@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 2:39 PM
To: asirv@webmethods.com
Cc: Biron,Paul V; w3c-xml-schema-ig@w3.org; Ningang chen
Subject: Re: [Clarifications] Part 2 Datatypes


Comment interspersed in the text prefixed by AM>

All the best, Ashok


"Asir S Vedamuthu" <asirv@webmethods.com>@w3.org on 05/03/2000 01:36:48 PM

Please respond to <asirv@webmethods.com>

Sent by:  w3c-xml-schema-ig-request@w3.org


To:   Ashok Malhotra/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, "Biron,Paul V"
      <Paul.V.Biron@kp.org>, <w3c-xml-schema-ig@w3.org>
cc:   "Ningang chen" <nchen@webmethods.com>
Subject:  [Clarifications] Part 2 Datatypes



I appreciate your comments on these questions.

All the best,

Asir S Vedamuthu
webMethods, Inc.
(Phone) 703-460-2513 (Fax) 703-460-2513 (E-mail) asirv@webmethods.com
URL: http://www.webmethods.com



(1) <Snip> Section 3.3.8 integer http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#integer

Integer has the following constraining facets: precision, scale, .. </Snip>

Please explain the validation contribution of 'precision' & 'scale' if the
{base type definition} is integer
AM> Integer is derived from decimal by setting scale=0
AM> The PSV infoset for derived datatypes indicates all the facets
AM> of the base datatype and their fixed values.

(2) <Snip> Section 3.2.6 timeDuration
http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#timeDuration

.. where nY represents the number of years, nM the number of months, ..
</Snip>

<Snip> Section 4.2.6 - 4.2.9

.. if the {base type definition} is one of date and time related datatypes,
then the value must be chronologically less than or equal to {value}
</Snip>

'nY' - Does a year have 360 or 365 days?
'nM' - Does a month have 28, 30, 31, or 400 days?

Note: I scanned thru ISO 8601 and it does not say anything about it
AM> The number of days in the month or year will depend on when the
AM> period occurs.  We take the position that this is always known
AM> and, thus, there is no ambiguity but would like to see counterexamples.
AM> ISO8601 seconf edition, does say in 3.15 that "in certain applications
AM> a month is regarded as a unit of time of 30 days".

(3)  <Snip> Section 4.2.1 length
http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#dc-length
Constraint on Schemas: length and minLength - it is an error for both
length
and minLength to be members of {facets} </Snip>

Is it ok if length and maxLength are members of {facets}?
AM> No, if length is specified neither minLength or maxLength
AM> can be specified.

(4) <Snip> Sectin 4.2.6 maxInclusive
http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#dc-maxInclusive
Constraint on Schemas: It is an error for the value specified for
minInclusive to be greater than the value specified for maxInclusive for
the
same datatype</Snip>

Is it ok if minExclusive to be greater than maxInclusive? This question
also
applies to Section 4.2.7 - 4.2.9
AM> No.

(5) <Snip> Section 4.2.5 enumeration
http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#dc-enumeration [value] a set of values
from  the value space of the {base type definition}</Snip>

Lets say I have a <simpleType/> A that restricts a {base type definition}
B.
In addition, <simpleType/> A has a set of <enumeration> values, say e1, e2,
e3, .., en. Is the set {e1, e2, .. } of values form the value space of
{base
type definition} B or <simpleType/> A? Note: it is the synthesis of facet
values which together determine the value space and properties of the
datatype. Please clarify
AM> The enumerated values must be from the value space of A.
Received on Thursday, 11 May 2000 11:24:46 UTC

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