W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-ws@w3.org > April 2002

RE: potential users of web services

From: Anne Thomas Manes <anne@manes.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:24:06 -0500
To: "Keith Ballinger" <keithba@microsoft.com>, <thomi@di.uoa.gr>, <www-ws@w3.org>
Message-ID: <CJEIKEMEBAONGDDNLEKFOEFEEAAA.anne@manes.net>
I might be convinced to agree that XML is required, but from the generic view point, I don't think that SOAP is required. I view RosettaNet as a web service, but it doesn't use SOAP. 

Anne

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Ballinger [mailto:keithba@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:31 PM
> To: thomi@di.uoa.gr; www-ws@w3.org; anne@manes.net
> Subject: RE: potential users of web services
> 
> 
> I tend to agree with what this thread has stated. What do you 
> think of Sun's claims (evidently) from this Java One session[1]?
>  
> "Web Services, the session told us, are not necessarily in XML 
> and do not have to use SOAP, they just describe opening up your 
> internal processes."
>  
> Seems to me that SOAP and XML are pretty required to be called a 
> Web service. Otherwise, it's a distributed app, but not the new 
> loosly coupled thing we are all working on.
>  
> Thanks,
> Keith
>  
> [1] http://www.webservicesarchitect.com/content/articles/wiggers03.asp 
> 
> 	-----Original Message----- 
> 	From: Anne Thomas Manes [mailto:anne@manes.net] 
> 	Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 5:48 PM 
> 	To: Hao He; thomi@di.uoa.gr; www-ws@w3.org 
> 	Subject: RE: potential users of web services 
> 
> 	+1 
> 
> 	I was struggling with that word. I was originally going to 
> call it simply 
> 	software -- trying not to  imply any level of granularity, 
> but then I 
> 	thought -- well, it might actually be implemented using firmware or 
> 	hardware. So I went with the word component. Perhaps it 
> might be best to 
> 	call it a unit of work (although I don't want to imply that 
> it supports 
> 	transaction semantics). 
> 
> 	Anne 
> 
> 	> -----Original Message----- 
> 	> From: www-ws-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:www-ws-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of 
> 	> Hao He 
> 	> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 7:35 PM 
> 	> To: 'Anne Thomas Manes'; thomi@di.uoa.gr; www-ws@w3.org 
> 	> Subject: RE: potential users of web services 
> 	> 
> 	> 
> 	> I agree most with Anne except one tiny bit: 
> 	> 
> 	> I would say that a web service is a service provided by 
> one or more 
> 	> components that exposes 
> 	> a programmatic interface.  A compoent itself is not the service. 
> 	> Service is 
> 	> the functionality that defined in the interface. 
> 	> 
> 	> 
> 	> Hao 
> 	> 
> 	> -----Original Message----- 
> 	> From: Anne Thomas Manes [mailto:anne@manes.net] 
> 	> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 5:05 AM 
> 	> To: thomi@di.uoa.gr; www-ws@w3.org 
> 	> Subject: RE: potential users of web services 
> 	> 
> 	> 
> 	> Thomi, 
> 	> 
> 	> Ask five people the definition of "web service" and you'll get 
> 	> six answers. 
> 	> 
> 	> I generally describe a web service as a service that 
> communicates over the 
> 	> web. A service is a component that exposes a programmatic 
> interface. The 
> 	> service interface must be described; and the service 
> 	> implementation must be 
> 	> discoverable. 
> 	> 
> 	> When you relate this abstract definition to current 
> technologies, you can 
> 	> implement a web service by creating a service that exposes a SOAP 
> 	> interface, 
> 	> which is described by WSDL, and which is registered in UDDI. But 
> 	> I wouldn't 
> 	> want to use current technologies to *define* the basic concept. I 
> 	> also don't 
> 	> think that it's essential to use any of these 
> technologies to create a web 
> 	> service. I can certainly create a web service using XML-RPC or 
> 	> RosettaNet or 
> 	> a host of other technologies. 
> 	> 
> 	> That said, I would concur that web services are intended 
> to be consumed by 
> 	> applications rather than humans. But keep in mind that a 
> user interface is 
> 	> an application. If I wanted to arrange food for 500 people for 
> 	> two weeks in 
> 	> Dubai, I would use a catering application, which in turn 
> uses web services 
> 	> to find caterers that can provide services in Dubai. The 
> UI isn't the web 
> 	> service. The UI uses web services to accomplish its work. Hence 
> 	> an ASP page 
> 	> or HTML form aren't web services, they are an interface 
> to web services. 
> 	> 
> 	> Best regards, 
> 	> 
> 	> Anne Thomas Manes 
> 	> CTO, Systinet 
> 	> 
> 	> > -----Original Message----- 
> 	> > From: www-ws-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-request@w3.org]On 
> 	> > Behalf Of Thomi Pilioura 
> 	> > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:09 AM 
> 	> > To: www-ws@w3.org 
> 	> > Subject: potential users of web services 
> 	> > 
> 	> > 
> 	> > Hi all, 
> 	> > 
> 	> > I'm little confused about the notion of the term "web 
> services". 
> 	> > When I'm reading papers related to UDDI,WSDL,SOAP they present 
> 	> > web services 
> 	> > as a new age of distributed computing and as such they are only 
> 	> useful to 
> 	> > developers (who are trying to build web applicattions) 
> and not to the 
> 	> > end-users. But when I'm reading papers related to 
> DAML-S the idea I'm 
> 	> > getting for web services is different. They are also useful to 
> 	> > end users as 
> 	> > it shown by DAML-S motivating scenarios: 
> 	> > 
> 	> > Web service discovery 
> 	> > Find me a shipping service that transports goods to Dubai. 
> 	> > 
> 	> > Web service invocation 
> 	> > Buy me 500 lbs. powdered milk from www.acmemoo.com 
> 	> > 
> 	> > Web service selection, composition and interoperation 
> 	> > Arrange food for 500 people for 2 weeks in Dubai. 
> 	> > 
> 	> > Web service execution monitoring 
> 	> > Has the powdered milk been ordered and paid for yet? 
> 	> > 
> 	> > There are also numerous papers that use the term 
> service (and not "web 
> 	> > service") and are talking about UDDI, WSDL and DAML-S. 
> What's the 
> 	> > difference 
> 	> > between "web service" and "service" if both of them work over 
> 	> > Internet? For 
> 	> > example, a search engine (such as google) is a service, 
> but when it is 
> 	> > described in WSDL, published in UDDI and can be invoked using 
> 	> > SOAP becomes a 
> 	> > web service? Ia a asp or an HTML form a service or a 
> web service? 
> 	> > 
> 	> > In summary which are the potential users of web 
> services (web service 
> 	> > providers, developers, end-users)? 
> 	> > 
> 	> > could you please shed some light on this? 
> 	> > regards 
> 	> > Thomi Pilioura 
> 	> > 
> 	> > 
> 	> > 
> 	> > 
> 	> 
> 
Received on Friday, 5 April 2002 00:23:43 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 3 July 2007 12:25:40 GMT