W3C

Web Services Description Working Group telcon

22 Feb 2007

See also: IRC log (partial)

Attendees

Present
Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
Paul Downey, British Telecommunications
Youenn Fablet, Canon
Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universitšt Innsbruck, Austria
Amelia Lewis, TIBCO
Philippe Le Hegaret, W3C
Jonathan Marsh, Co-chair/WSO2
Monica Martin, Sun Microsystems
Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon
Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems
Tony Rogers, Co-chair/Computer Associates
Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft
Regrets
Arthur Ryman, IBM
Chair
Jonathan
Scribe
JacekK

Contents


<scribe>: JacekK

approval of minutes

RESOLVED: minutes of last week approved

action item review

Review of Action items [.1].

?         2006-09-21: Jonathan to check periodically that SPARQL has 
                      added schemaLocation.
?         2007-01-04: Paul to report back on which test cases in the 
                      WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with
                      suggestions on how to address the issues.
?         2007-01-11: Jean-Jacques to provide more analysis on how 
                      difficult it would be deal with a Policy that 
                      only contains an MTOM policy assertion
DONE [.3] 2007-02-15: Jonathan to forward his WSDL1.1 identifiers 
                      Comments
DONE      2007-02-15: Jonathan to drum up a WS-A reviewer off-list
DONE [.4] 2007-02-15: Jonathan to check whether the test suite needs 
                      to be fixed with regards to SOAP Response and 
                      action

Current Editorial Action Items

Note: Editorial AIs associated with LC issues recorded at [.2].

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/actions_owner.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Feb/0118.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Feb/0158.html

Jonathan: we may not need to review the WS-A spec formally in this WG, due to the overlap with WS-A
... I fixed the test suite wrt: soap action on GET

youenn: you broke put and didn't fix delete

jjm: XMLP asked us to review the one-way MEP...

Jonathan: I believe we did that
... Jonathan: I may want to check the delivery of one-way MEP comments to XMLP

<Jonathan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xmlp-comments/2007Feb/0000.html

Jonathan: done
... will fix the PUT and DELETE

administrivia

issue CR147

Jonathan: Jonathan: still waiting for the TAG to reply to our question

Jacek: they will discuss it on Monday, probably

Jonathan: Jonathan: we'll revisit it next week, then

CR153

Jonathan: Jonathan: anybody against changing to http://www.w3.org/ns/wsdl or wsdl2?

Jacek: I like wsdl2

jjm: I like the change

Jacek: would we also change the documents to version 2, not 2.0?

Jonathan: why?

Roberto: why even 2?

gpilz: the 2 helps people distinguish from wsdl1.1

Jonathan: without '2', we make a political statement that WSDL 2.0 is the one true version

Jacek: if we adopt /wsdl and there's wsdl3, would we have /wsdl and then /wsdl3?

Jonathan: that's a very unlikely scenario
...most new things can be extensions

Roberto: policy has /ns/policy with no version

monica: we could ask the W3C about how they plan to handle future versions

Jonathan: some namespaces have RDDL sets of links
... Jonathan: next version would give us the question again, there's a central authority on this /ns/

chad, question: namespace
... option 0: /2006/01/wsdl
... option 1: /ns/wsdl
... option 2: /ns/wsdl2
... option 3: /ns/wsdl20
... option 4: /ns/wsdl2.0

<Roberto> are there precedents for /ns/wsdl2.0 ?

TonyR: wsdl20 is like the number twenty

Jonathan: but it's similar to the shortname in /TR/

<jjm> vote: 1

<JacekK> vote: 2, 3, 0

<TonyR> vote: 2,1,0,4,3

<plh> vote: 2, 1, 3

<gpilz> vote: 2, 3, 4, 1, 0

<Roberto> vote: 1, 4, 0, 3

<youenn> vote: 1,2

<Jonathan> vote: 1, 2

<jkaputin> vote: 1, 2, 3

chad, count

<chad:> Question: namespace
... Option 0: /2006/01/wsdl (0)
... Option 1: /ns/wsdl (5)
... Option 2: /ns/wsdl2 (4)
... Option 3: /ns/wsdl20 (0)
... Option 4: /ns/wsdl2.0 (0)
... 10 voters: alewis abstained,gpilz (2,3,4,1,0),JacekK (2,3,0),jjm (1),jkaputin (1,2,3),Jonathan (1,2),plh (2,1,3),Roberto (1,4,0,3),TonyR (2,1,0,4,3),youenn (1,2)
... Round 1: Count of first place rankings.
... Candidate 1 is elected.
... Winner is option 1 - /ns/wsdl

<monica> vote: 1, 4, 0, 3

a straw-poll indicates that /ns/wsdl is preferred by the WG

<pauld> chad, option 5: /2007/01/wsdl

<pauld> thinks /ns/* sucks

<Jonathan> chad, options

<chad> Question: namespace
... Option 0: /2006/01/wsdl (0)
... Option 1: /ns/wsdl (6)
... Option 2: /ns/wsdl2 (4)
... Option 3: /ns/wsdl20 (0)
... Option 4: /ns/wsdl2.0 (0)
... Option 5: /2007/01/wsdl (0)

Jonathan: it seems people are interested in moving away from dated form

TonyR: a bit of history is good for you

plh: the tools will remember the dates easily

pauld: I like the dated thing in face of multiple versions
... typing it, I'm happy to use the date

Jonathan: I prefer without date because it's not just a namespace, but other identifiers are based on it and I tend to type those so it's easier

gpilz: those URIs might not even change between versions

<pauld> it's "what colour are the bicycle sheds"

<JacekK> vote: 0, 3, 2

<asir> vote: 1, 2

<asir> chad, options

<chad> Question: namespace
... Option 0: /2006/01/wsdl (1)
... Option 1: /ns/wsdl (7)
... Option 2: /ns/wsdl2 (3)
... Option 3: /ns/wsdl20 (0)
... Option 4: /ns/wsdl2.0 (0)
... Option 5: /2007/01/wsdl (0)

<pauld> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_Parkinson's_Bicycle_Shed_Effect

pauld: without versioning, we just pick, but expecting more versions, we might have a hard time with /ns/wsdl

<JacekK> vote: 2, 3, 0

<jjm> vote: 1

<jjm> votes: 1

<asir> vote: 1

<asir> chad, options

<chad> Question: namespace
... Option 0: /2006/01/wsdl (0)
... Option 1: /ns/wsdl (7)
... Option 2: /ns/wsdl2 (4)
... Option 3: /ns/wsdl20 (0)
... Option 4: /ns/wsdl2.0 (0)
... Option 5: /2007/01/wsdl (0)

<pauld> vote: 5

<plh> vote: 1

<pauld> vote: 5, 0

Jonathan: any objections to changing our namespace(s) to http://www.w3.org/ns/wsdl

<gpilz> vote: 5

<asir> chad, options

<chad> Question: namespace
... Option 0: /2006/01/wsdl (0)
... Option 1: /ns/wsdl (8)
... Option 2: /ns/wsdl2 (2)
... Option 3: /ns/wsdl20 (0)
... Option 4: /ns/wsdl2.0 (0)
... Option 5: /2007/01/wsdl (2)

RESOLVED: namespace changed to http://www.w3.org/ns/wsdl

Jonathan: issue CR153 closed

CR issue 21

Jonathan: this will be bundled with 147

<pauld> it's a configuration over convention

CR154

<Jonathan> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#InterfaceMessageReference-1205002

Jonathan: seems that the assertion can be coded in the schema

pauld: but this duplication is harmless

Jonathan: this assertion would not surface from the validator because schema validation would reject it earlier

Jonathan: and it'd be an easy fix

Roberto: +1

jkaputin: +1

RESOLUTION: assertion markup around this assertion to be removed, and similarly the new corresponding assertion around interface faults, just added

adjuncts 6.8.1.1

<Jonathan> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20-adjuncts.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#_http_operation_location_cited_ser

Jonathan: should offensive characters in the template get encoded together with the filled-in values?
... Jonathan: some more confusion in the text found (double negatives)
... Jonathan: first part of the fix - move the bullets with assertions in 6.8.1.1 up front
... Jonathan: and removing NOT from second bullet of current second bullet

Jacek: NOT is not a RFC2119 keyword, right?

Jonathan: and then the IRI is transcoded into URI
... the RFC says that some characters SHOULD be encoded - this impacts us
... Jonathan: canon and wso2 are planning to honor that SHOULD

youenn: RFC2396, sec 3.3 says & is allowed in path
... ... and ; = ? / are reserved

Jonathan: maybe we should move this to email, we need a number of double-checks
... about semicolon, equals, ampersand...
... Jonathan: and {query parameter separator}

Jacek: the query parameter separator is harmful in query

Jonathan: I feel we just need to drop the first subbulet of the second bullet

Jonathan: recapitulation:
... move the 4th and 5th bullets up, remove the NOT from the second subbulet of second bullet
... Jonathan: remove first subbulet of second bullet
... Jonathan: remove ; and = from the remaining subbullet
... add & there

ACTION: Jonathan to put the proposal on the list for us to double-check.

Jonathan: we'll take this to the list
... other issues? Youenn may have had one

youenn: it's about the query parameter separator value, which may be anything

Jonathan: yes, but what if it's something that interacts with the encoding algorithm?
... so should we restrict the values to something more manageable, like {';', '&'}

youenn: maybe a SHOULD restriction to the two could be sufficient

Jonathan: e.g. # would not be a good query param separator
... how much do we want to keep people from hanging themselves?
... we can come up with a list of harmless characters, and even put it in schema

<scribe> ACTION: Jonathan to figure out what characters can be used as query separators without causing harm [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/22-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]

people happy with the direction

Jonathan: any other issues?

jkaputin: I had one
... on the schema, about #any, #other, and it still has features and properties?

<monica> there is an issue

<Jonathan> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20.xsd

Jonathan: the editor's copy doesn't have f&p

<youenn> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2007Feb/0006.html

youenn: still on the URI encoding, people are talking about it in the W3C URI list

Jonathan: do you think they say something that we could use?

youenn: it'd be good to have consensus with them

Jonathan: we can send a summary of our proposal to them

<scribe> ACTION: Jonathan to send a summary of our URI templating text to the URI list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/22-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]

implementation status summary

Jonathan: we're getting closer to completion
... all green on interchange results
... no results for LocationTemplate-2G

youenn: working on that

Jonathan: ... few reds expected to remain
... all-green would assure us that no new issues should be coming
... results for validation should probably be refreshed before director's call

youenn: some of the results may stay red in PR

Jonathan: director's call should come within 10 days after our vote to move to PR

jkaputin: we may have better results

Jonathan: msg-level tests are the main thing to focus on now

publication status and plan

jjm: editorial items implemented

Roberto: have problems with CVS

Jonathan: we should have everything done before we vote for PR next week
... renumbering assertions?

JacekK: where do the assertion IDs show up?

Jonathan: in the summary, fragment-id's, and test suite in validation
... two numbering schemes - token, then number or a coded number

gpilz: do we have a proposal for renumbering?

Jonathan: arthur came up with a new system

jkaputin: consistency would be good

Jonathan: the question is about who does it

JacekK: don't think they're prominent enough that they need to be changed

Jonathan: the question is whether we have somebody to do it
... if we don't care, let's drop this

jkaputin: it'd be good to have the IDs identify a section in the spec

Jonathan: the assertion ID is a fragment ID, direct link
... I'll send a mail to Arthur that we don't really care about the renumbering

jkaputin: if I send you a patch, would it be considered?

Jonathan: it would be accepted
... let's talk with Arthur

<Jonathan> ACTION: Jonathan to start renumbering discussion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/22-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]

Jonathan: any necessary changes to the SOAP 1.1 binding?
... RDF mapping?

JacekK: it will be updated for the PR publication round

Jonathan: next week we'll ask about new WDs of SOAP 1.1 binding, additional MEPs, and RDF mapping

<alewis> noted, jonathan.

Jonathan: the additional MEPs title should look more official
... similar to the specs

jjm: CR136 implementing needs the regeneration of the component table

plh: I can do it

Jonathan: there's a - component which is weird
... see you next week

asir: not aware of any changes for SOAP 1.1 binding doc

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Jonathan to put the proposal on the list for us to double-check. [recorded in #action00]
[NEW] ACTION: Jonathan to figure out what characters can be used as query separators without causing harm [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/22-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Jonathan to send a summary of our URI templating text to the URI list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/22-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Jonathan to start renumbering discussion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/22-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2007/02/22 18:32:01 $