W3C

WS Description WG telcon
11 May 2006

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Charlton Baretto, Adobe Systems
Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software
Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
Glen Daniels, Sonic Software
Paul Downey, British Telecommunications
Hugo Haas, W3C
Tom Jordahl, Macromedia
Anish Karmarkar, Oracle
Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universitšt Innsbruck, Austria
Amelia Lewis, TIBCO
Bozhong Lin, IONA Technologies
Jonathan Marsh, Co-chair/Microsoft
Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon
Vivek Pandey, Sun Microsystems
Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems
Tony Rogers, Co-chair/Computer Associates
Arthur Ryman, IBM
Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft
Regrets
Chair
Marsh
Scribe
jjm

Contents


[WSDL Implementer's mintutes]

<TonyR> ACTION: Chairs to invite XFire to join this call per Tom Jordahl's suggestion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]

<Jonathan> John has more testcases to contribute, will get them to Arthur.

<TonyR> Discussions of testing interop of the runtimes

<Jonathan> ACTION: Jonathan to look into how to create SOAP 1.2 services with .NET. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]

<TonyR> Discussing the content and format of the interop meeting

<Jonathan> Scribe: jjm

[WSDL WG call starts]

Minutes approved.

?         2005-07-21: Pauld to write a proposal for a working group 
                      report for requirements for schema evolution 
                      following closure of LC124 
?         2006-03-30: Marsh to make XSLT improvements for RDF
                      publication. 
?         2006-04-20: Glen to flesh out a model for runtime test
                      scenarios. 
DONE      2006-04-20: Jonathan to publish the 6-7 July Toronto date
                      and see what reaction we get. 

Administrivia

Marsh: back to weekly call since items are stacking up.

<scribe> ACTION: Arthur to prepare logistics page for interop event asap [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]

Tony: no new items from implementors call.

Arthur: could members pls contribute test cases?
... web page shows test coverage, pls see below (red means no coverage):

<Arthur> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/test-suite-coverage-summary.xml?content-type=text/xml

Arthur: you can see we're still missing quite a few test cases
... there are no f&p test cases for example

RDF mapping document

Marsh: the status is to be updated, so pls ignore that part, but content should be ok

Jacek: indeed, and planning to move to last call asap

Marsh: any other comments? enough time to review?
... any objection to publish as Last Call?

None

Marsh: congratulations Jacek
... publish next week; 17th July end Last Call

<Jonathan> reviews: SWIG, SWSIG, SWBP

<JacekK> reviews+ SAWSDL

Features at risk

Marsh: feedback from director
... any actual use of f&p?
... also, submission of WS-Policy
... hence, do we need to do anything to f&p? Similar question for HTTP binding.

Arthur: HTTP binding very important. Lots of divergence in community. REST gaining momentum over WS (due to AJAX).

Marsh: we need implementations

Hugo: does Canon have an implementation of the HTTP binding?

JJ: a partial one.

Glen: Axis is REST compliant, so could be as well for WSDL 2.0, however need manpower

JJ: would still need a full, second implementation

<pauld> doesn't see a lot of excitement or interest in describing existing POX/REST services in WSDL 2.0, beyond DaveO's Yahoo examples. 'Resource' centric languages generate more interest, such as Marc Hadley's WADL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-http-desc/

Marsh: difficult to address this issue now, need more data, maybe wait until after interop event
... we could extract the HTTP binding and put it on a separate track

Arthur: Woden would be parsing it; but we need runtime implemenation
... our first priority is to get SOAP working

Marsh: wait until after interop event
... HTTP binding not marked at risk. Need to move back to CR?
... F&P: any new options?

Arthur: WS-Policy has been submitted, hence major obstacle has been removed

Anish: welcomes submission of WS-Policy (which we are a cosubmitter of); however, a little early to comment

Marsh: if a WG were to be created, this would substantially change your position

Anish: possibly; lots of discussions currently; certainly looking forward to WG being created

Arthur: a likely path is probably that a WG will be created

Marsh: ok for now, but at some point we will need a clear statement on HTTP binding and f&p

Issue CR022

<pauld> doesn't understand the advantage of having F&P *and* W3C WS-Policy

Arthur: would like processing time to be linear with large documents
... not so with schema currently (due, e.g., to chameleon includes)
... add a requirement that an extension must not change the value of components that are imported or included
... could also possibly restrict componence equivalence by restricting the depth

Roberto: no such extension currently
... do we really need to change the equivalence algorithm?
... would need more time to think about it

Marsh: let's move to other issues, come back next week
... if no other compelling scenario, Arthur has presented compelling reasons for the change

Issue CR023

<Roberto> +1 to Jonathan's proposal

<Arthur> +1

Arthur: agree with suggested change

Marsh: any objection?

None

Marsh: changing to REQUIRED and making associated editorial change

Issue CR024

Hugo: I thought had similar text already

Arthur: yes, elsewhere, but not here

Marsh: any objection?

None

Issue CR025

Marsh: remove "if" and rewrite accordingly
... any objection?

None

Issue CR026

No objection to adopting proposed fix

Issue CR027

Jacek, Glen: the order of SOAP codes is relevant, so not a set but ordered list

Glen: linear nest

Arthur: not a set, but linear nest of subcodes, empty list makes sense

Marsh: hence issue is moot?

Arthur: text is correct but probably not obvious
... nested subcodes, empty is meaningfull, editorial clarification

<Jonathan> The value of this property identifies one or more subcodes for this SOAP fault. This represents nested subcodes, the empty value is allowed.

<TonyR> or perhaps "..., an empty list represents a fault code without subcodes."

<Arthur> the list of subcodes is the nested sequence of subcodes

<Arthur> the empty list is meaningful - mean just the main fault code is present

Marsh: any objection to above fix?

None

Issue CR028

<asir> +1 to Hugo, don't see any additional benefits in rewriting part 2

Hugo: part 2 is written differently from part 1, from functionality POV and not component model. Think OK as is, would be too much shuffling around also.

Arthur: no strong objection to not adopting this text.

Marsh: any objection to not adopt proposal?

None

Issue CR029

Marsh: no time to address now.

Arthur: these were all part 2 issues. Hugo, will you address them?

Hugo: just realized this will be my last call.

JJ: can handle some issues

<asir> Hugo, we'll miss you!

Marsh: thanks Hugo for your hard work, and thanks for your new job

<JacekK> +1

<pauld> bye Hugo, and thanks for all the fish!

Adjourn

<JacekK> funny

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Arthur to prepare logistics page for interop event asap [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Chairs to invite XFire to join this call per Tom Jordahl's suggestion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Jonathan to look into how to create SOAP 1.2 services with .NET. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.127 (CVS log)
$Date: 2006/05/11 16:39:46 $