W3C

WS Description WG telcon
5 Jan 2006

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Charlton Baretto, Adobe Systems
Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software
Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
Glen Daniels, Sonic Software
Paul Downey, British Telecommunications
Youenn Fablet, Canon
Tom Jordahl, Macromedia
Anish Karmarkar, Oracle
Amelia Lewis, TIBCO
Bozhong Lin, IONA Technologies
Kevin Canyang Liu, SAP
Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon
Vivek Pandey, Sun Microsystems
Bijan Parsia, University of Maryland MIND Lab
Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems
Tony Rogers, Co-chair/Computer Associates
Arthur Ryman, IBM
Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft
Umit Yalcinalp, SAP
Regrets
Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universitšt Innsbruck, Austria
Chair
Marsh
Scribe
Roberto

Contents


<scribe> Scribe: Roberto

approval of minutes from Dec 8

No objections, minutes are approved.

review of action items

?         2005-07-21: pauld to write a proposal for a working group 
                      report for requirements for schema evolution 
                      following closure of LC124 
?         2005-10-20: Kendall to contact DAWG to ask for contribution to
                      test suite, due 2005-10-27. 
?         2005-11-10: Hugo will start adding assertions to Part 2. 
?         2005-11-10: Marsh to take the IRI issue to the CG, due
                      2005-11-16. 
?         2005-12-08: Amy to propose text warning about the knots one 
                      can tie oneself up in when writing an extension. 
DONE [.3] 2005-12-08: Arthur to update the schema to allow extensibility
                      of import/include. 
DONE [.4] 2005-12-08: Marsh will respond.

Current Editorial Action Items
?    [.5] 2005-07-21: Arthur to add stable identifiers for each 
                      assertion, due 2005-09-26. 

Note: Editorial AIs associated with LC issues recorded at [.2]. 

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/actions_owner.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Dec/0023.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Dec/0020.html
[.5]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/assert-yourself.html

will leave the 2005-07-21 action to Arthur open

administrivia

Tony is the new co-chair

No time zone changes

Jan 25-26 telethon meeting scheduled

<GlenD> no no

Feb meeting in Cannes

TP day content review

Marsh: first proposal was on formal methods

<Marsh> ACTION: Marsh to contact XQuery and chairs re formal methods [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]

<GlenD> +1 for Chad lightning talk :)

Marsh: chad talk done already
... "MEPs or Mess" seems very specific for a plenary day
... typography talk

<Marsh> ACTION: Marsh to work on typography abstract [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]

Marsh: RDF mapping for everything suggested by Jacek

<Marsh> Marsh: ACTION: Ask Jacek to propose talk to program committee.

Marsh: if we go to CR tomorrow, we should start thinking about an interop event
... would the technical plenary be a good place to do some interop work?
... other than the opportunity to meet with other groups, there is nothing special about the plenary

Arthur: Woden released some milestones, it can do useful interop if there are other implementations
... we could also look at other groups who are doing WSDL extensions and have a review session for them

Marsh: what's the ideal time to do an interop event from Woden's pov?

<scribe> ACTION: Arthur to check Woden's schedule and report back [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]

Marsh: sounds like the plenary would be a bit early for an interop event

CR status

Marsh: document will be published tomorrow
... f&p will be marked at risk

TomJ: are minutes from the meeting with the director available?

Marsh: don't know, can check if they are member-available
... (summarizes the meeting)
... only item that generated much discussion was Dan Connelly's issue on identifiers
... the director didn't ask to go further on fragment identifiers
... discussed the different options on f&p
... the director considered that the fact that f&p wasn't marked at risk meant the WG had overcome its differences
... Jonathan objected that at risk is a process thing, it's not clear that they can be excised from the document without going back
... although they are a large part of the spec, there are not many cross-dependencies on f&p
... but nobody has done the exercise of trying to excise them
... Jonathan also encouraged TBL to contact other objectors
... then there was another call in the afternoon
... optimal outcome would have been a firm decision; instead, it postpones the resolution to the end of CR
... also compositors were turned down for CR, but it's still possible that they might be revived if f&p is moved to a separate spec
... after CR publication, we enter a new phase, processing CR issues
... recommends the WG be conservative in changing things
... to avoid destabilizing implementations and going back to Last Call

Issue CR002

Marsh: action is still open
... Issue CR003
... commenter complains about the use of a X-something media type
... which is discouraged by RFC4288

Arthur: what's the alternative?

Marsh: removing support for the URL encoded media type?

Arthur: but that's what browsers generate!

Marsh: don't know if there is a standard alternative for it

<Marsh> ACTION: Marsh to ask about CR003 alternatives. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04]

RDF mapping issues process

Issue 106

Marsh: Jacek proposed to closing it with no action

RESOLUTION: issue 106 closed with no action

Issue 282

Marsh: Jacek proposed to close it with no action

<JacekK> close with action done in the past

<JacekK> close by agreeing with the commenter

RESOLUTION: issue 282 closed with previous action

Issue 283

<Marsh> ACTION: JacekK to detail (e.g. in a list) what constraints of the component model are not enforced by the WSDL ontology [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action05]

Issue 284

Marsh: editorial issue, solution already incorporated

RESOLUTION: issue 285 closed

Issue 286

Marsh: postpone it until we get more info on it

Issue 288 (88 on the issues list)

Marsh: what are the limits? couldn't we just use the URI for the section of the spec that contains the definition in question instead?
... will discuss it with Jacek

<JacekK> I'll have to think about it

<JacekK> it also ties in with what URIs we choose in the end for our things

<charlton> cr88: the RDF mapping currently uses the URI

<charlton> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/wsdl-rdf#SOAPMessageExchangePattern to point

<charlton> to the concept of a SOAP 1.2 message exchange pattern; this URI is

<charlton> WSDL-specific, we should probably request the XMLP WG to coin a URI for

<charlton> us because this concept is clearly in their scope.

<JacekK> the idea that we could use the #frag references to the spec text is still open

<JacekK> but we should at least confirm with XMLP that we can do that

Issue 287

Marsh: no proposal, will skip the issue

<JacekK> can't say much about this, have to think about it, also ties in with the question of using #frag references to spec text

CR testing issues/progress

Marsh: anything we can do to move CR testing forward?

Arthur: encourage people to create test cases
... post new test cases to the public or comments lists

test case coverage report: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/test-suite-coverage-summary.xml?content-type=text/xml

<Marsh> ACTION: Marsh to add link to test suite from home page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action06]

Glen: if a test case uses an extension, don't I need a mini-spec in English for it?
... the test suite must be able to express test-specific semantics
... e.g. a test-only binding

Arthur: that's a different kind of test, a message test, not a document test

Glen: also need a out-of-band description of preconditions ("you must understand this extension", or "must not")

Arthur: for testing, we need some standard test services we can interact with

Paul: upcoming interop event for addressing, can we coordinate with them?

Marsh: we could define say 10 canonical services and run interop tests against them

<scribe> ACTION: Glen to write an outline for a test service and send it to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action07]

Glen: we should ping soapbuilders to find out about planned implementations

Marsh: having a prototype of these services at the plenary would help
... will cancel telcons if we don't have enough agenda items

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Arthur to check Woden's schedule and report back [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Glen to write an outline for a test service and send it to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: JacekK to detail (e.g. in a list) what constraints of the component model are not enforced by the WSDL ontology [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh to add link to test suite from home page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh to ask about CR003 alternatives. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh to contact XQuery and chairs re formal methods [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh to work on typography abstract [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2006/01/05 17:22:36 $