W3C

Web Services Description WG

31 Mar 2005

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Charlton Barreto, webMethods
Rebecca Bergersen, IONA Technologies
David Booth, W3C
Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software
Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
Ugo Corda, SeeBeyond
Paul Downey, British Telecommunications
Youenn Fablet, Canon
Hugo Haas, W3C
Tom Jordahl, Macromedia
Anish Karmarkar, Oracle
Amelia Lewis, TIBCO
Kevin Canyang Liu, SAP
Jeff Mischkinsky, Oracle
Dale Moberg, Cyclone Commerce
Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon
David Orchard, BEA Systems
Bijan Parsia, University of Maryland MIND Lab
Tony Rogers, Computer Associates
Arthur Ryman, IBM
Asir Vedamuthu, webMethods
Regrets
Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universitšt Innsbruck, Austria
Chair
JMarsh
Scribe
DMoberg

Contents


<dbooth-home> Scribe: DMoberg

Minutes approved

Action Item Review

Editors will start a weekly call.

Individual action items will get due dates

HOLD      2004-09-16: Editors to move App C to RDF Mapping spec, 
                      except the frag-id which will move 
                      within media-type reg appendix.
?         2004-09-16: Editors to fix paragraph 6-9 of section 
                      2.1.1 moved into 2.1.2
                      which talks about the syntax.
?         2004-10-14: Editors to add a statement like: 
                      The Style property may constrain both 
                      input and output, however a particular 
                      style may constrain in only one 
                      direction. In Section 2.4.1.1 of Part 1.
?         2004-11-10: Editor remove ambiguity if it exists
?         2005-01-13: Part 1 Editors to incorporate the text 
                      at 2004Dec/0022.html.
?         2005-01-19: Part 1 Editors to call out the difference 
                      between WSDL 1.1 and 2.0 in respect to 
                      single interface per service, and 
                      indicate alternatives
?         2005-01-19: Part 1 Editors to rewrite ONMR as Best 
                      practice.
?         2005-03-10: Editors to check URI and schema references in 
                      Part 1
RETIRED   2004-04-01: Marsh will get schema tf going.

Versioning action item history and current status from schema group. Marsh proposes retiring issue

David O reviews schema group plans on enhancing improvability.

<scribe> ACTION: Pauld to propose issue for extensibility/versioning for wsdl using schema 1.0, due April 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]

RETIRED   2004-09-02: Bijan to create stylesheet to generate a
                      table of components and properties.

<scribe> ACTION: Marsh to review Bijan's issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]

<Marsh> , due April 13

?         2004-11-09: DaveO will recast the @compatibleWith 
                      proposal using an extension namespace. 
                      (LC54), due April 13th.

Orchard Compatible with issue April 18 due date

lost in the typhoon

?         2004-11-10: Glen will post an e-mail describing 
                      the compromise proposal on formal objections.
?         2004-11-10: Sanjiva will write up this proposal 
                      and email it to the list as a response 
                      to the objection.
?         2004-11-11: Anish to propose additions to the 
                      test suite for the purpose of 
                      interoperability testing, due April 7
?         2004-12-03: Glen and Asir to help craft the specific text 
                      for the editors (LC18).
?         2005-02-17: Jacekk to help Bijan advance the RDF mapping work

RDF mapping, deferred due date

DONE      2005-03-03: Asir to double check the subissues of 76d to 
                      see if they should be raised as issues and to 
                      do so. 

<asir> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Mar/0108.html

76d action item done

DONE      2005-03-10: Anish and Umit will respond to comments on 
                      media type description documents with our 
                      actions.

media type documents, marked done

?         2005-03-10: Bijan will look at item Editors to move App C 
                      to RDF Mapping spec to see if it is still 
                      relavant

appendix c move to rdf, deferred

?         2005-03-10: Marsh to troll minutes looking for more CR 
                      criteria. April 13th.
DONE      2005-03-17: WG members review MTD by next week.
DONE      2005-03-24: Charlton to propose solution for Issue 
                      LC69a: XForms comments on (WSDL) Version 2.0 
                      Part 3: Bindings (a) 

<charlton> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Mar/0107.html

lc 69a done

DONE      2005-03-24: Charlton to propose text for LC28: HTTP 
                      Transfer Coding and 1.0, per Asir's 
                      proposed resolution 

<charlton> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Mar/0103.html

lc28 charlon done

?         2005-03-24: DaveO to dig up his old proposal for 
                      URL-encoding namespaces, for Issue LC77a:
                      Namespaced elements and urlformencoded, April 13th
DROP      2005-03-24: DaveO to figure out when/why multpart/related 
                      got dropped from HTML binding section, April 13th

DaveO varied, April 13 due date

<scribe> ACTION: Hugo adding binding info multipart/related 69b [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]

Hugo due April 13 also

DONE      2005-03-24: DaveO to produce HTTP binding section for primer,
                      April 13th
?         2005-03-24: DaveO to propose text for Issue LC47: 
                      describing the HTTP error text for faults,
                      April 13th
?         2005-03-24: DaveO to query MS whether they would support 
                      part of the HTTP binding if divided, April 13 
?         2005-03-24: Roberto to draft proposal to split HTTP 
                      binding into 3 bindings, April 13th

Roberto on splitting HTTP binding, April 13

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/lc-issues/actions.html

Robert asks 75g wherabouts

<Marsh> ACTION: Marsh to look into Robertos 75g proposal, April 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04]

Administrivia

<Marsh> ACTION: Marsh to see about Berlin logistics, APril 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action05]

Primer

93 and 107 issues schema types for arrays and another about uniqueness. Status?

Pauld says he would like to drop array issue at present time

DavidB says that someone else will need to add array info if it is to be in primer

<scribe> ACTION: Pauld will respond to 107 by april 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action06]

93 issue on primer, DavidB says now covered

Issue 93 to be closed

<pauld> just sent something in on versioning: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Mar/0112.html

Primer section 7.* review: 7.4 done by Booth, Arthur has submitted all directly into primer

Pauld 7.5 to arrive this afternoon

7.12 is at risk

7.2 primer and 7.7 in unknown state

7.7 to be dropped

<scribe> ACTION: Marsh to inquire about Glen and 7.2 for primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action07]

Consensus is 7.2 is dropped.

<Tomj> I think dropping 7.2 is a really bad idea!

DavIdB notes April 15 is hard stop on his work on primer

<Tomj> If anything needs primer text to help users, F&P does. I was looking forward to reading it.

Dan C on POST instead of GET: Booth says that is editorial fix needed

<scribe> ACTION: Kevin fixes editorial POST/GET and safety edits by Apr 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action08]

Media Type descriptions

Skipped this week

Last Call Issues (agenda item 7)

Propose to move section 8 to start.

Should this be editorial?

<scribe> ACTION: Arthur to move section 8 to front and issue is editorial [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action09]

<Marsh> , due April 7

Arthur to complete by 9:51 MST

Consider schema import statement without schemaLocation, is it valid? Should it be regarded as already seen and in-line

Marsh, this discussed previously and Marsh says wsdl is "good"

Arthur proposes that the documents be OK and that the spec should indicate this

Arthur text proposal read "All inline schemas that are contained in a WSDL document and any other

WSDL documents that it directly or indirectly imports or includes MUST be

used when resolving QName references to elements or types that belong to

namespaces that are imported via xs:import elements that have no

schemaLocation attribute."

Alewis does not know what the term "indirectly" is doing here

Is visibility of schema components being altered?

Arthur distinguishes location knowledge from visibility. Visibility goes with import and rules remain as is

Amy, agrees with the intent of Arthur's proposal. Thinks language not crisp enough

Is making this qname resolution process clear going to be a rathole? Pauld says the Arthur proposal should be make to work

Arthur describes another case in which schemaLocation is known Scribe misses details

<scribe> ACTION: Amy proposes text that Arthur will evaluation. Several test cases to be produced [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action10]

<scribe> ACTION: Arthur produces said test cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action11]

Actions 10 and 11 to be done by April 7

Arthur service referenc issue fix-- There is a fix however. The reason that we were able to restrict the

attribute values is that they are unqualified. Therefore, if we changed

our WSDL schema to use elementFormDefault="unqualified", and we ensured

that <endpoint> was a local element, then we could restrict it. However,

for consistency, we should probably also make the other nested elements

unqualified, i.e. just keep the top-level elements (<interface>,

<binding> , <service>, etc.) qualified. We can still have named complex

types for all the elements though.

Amy says the mixing of qualified and unqualified is likely to produce confusion

Marsh says that this mixing is not MS best practice probably

<dorchard> I don't quite get this.... I like qualified.

Roberto say service reference made obsolete by EPR in WSA

Arthur says that other proposals have been proposed historically so a review of this may be in order.

Lc28

<charlton> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Mar/0103.html

<Arthur> Note that the XML Schema [XML Schema: Structures] type of the element information item service as defined in the WSDL schema MAY be used as the basis for defining new elements which can be used as service references in message exchanges. To enable such reuse, the WSDL schema defines the attribute information item name as optional in the type of the element information item service , while it is REQUIRED for the element information item service as indicated abo

<Arthur> Note:

<Arthur> See the primer [WSDL 2.0 Primer] for more information and examples.

<Arthur> the above is from the Last Call Draft, Part 1, Section 2.13.2

<charlton> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Mar/0109.html

o resolve this issue I propose we update section 3.10.1 to have the

following language:

"Every Binding Message Reference component MAY indicate which transfer

codings, as defined in section 3.6 of [IETF RFC 2616], are available

for this particular message.

The HTTP binding provides a mechanism for indicating a default value at

<Arthur> for Service Reference text see http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-wsdl20-20040803/#Service_XMLRep

the Binding component and Binding Operation levels.

If no value is specified, no claim is being made.

Any transfer coding specified for HTTP 1.0 Binding is ignored."

Call for objections, none made

Lc28 closed in accordance with charlton solution as above

lc69a

<Marsh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Mar/0107.html

<charlton> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Mar/0107.html

<charlton> issue is that XForms has a 'knob' for either ';' or '&' as separator

I propose adding the following section as appropriate in the HTTP

binding spec:

The HTTP binding specification adds the following property to the WSDL

component model (as defined in [WSDL 2.0 Core Language]):

* {http query parameter separator}, a xs:string to the Operation

component.

Hugo asks about previous history on this issue of alignment with Xforms or otherwise

<scribe> ACTION: Hugo will send to list the history and discuss alignment issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action12]

<Marsh> , Due April 7

Due April 7

Agenda item 11: waiting on inputs

Agenda item 12: issue lc77a, proposals needed still

Agenda item 13: issue lc75u

wsdl: documentation 2nd class citizen because not in component model

Arthur to do so, mostly harmless

Unlike schema with annotation hook for machine readable stuff, wsdl open content so no semantics for documentation element

Roberto agrees with Arthur that wsdl:documentation has no machine processable content and so is not important enought to call out as a component. Amy agrees also

<Marsh> I also heard a concern that component equivalence should not depend upon documentation.

Amy likens wsdl:documentation to a comment, and notes the complication that it would make functionally equiv wsdls unequal

RESOLUTION: issue 75u closed with no action

Lc83 resolved by prior resolutions. Closed

<scribe> ACTION: lc80 proposal to Arthur by Apr 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action13]

Issue lc99 has a proposal for discussion next week

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Amy proposes text that Arthur will evaluation. Several test cases to be produced [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: Arthur produces said test cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: Arthur to move section 8 to front and issue is editorial [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Hugo adding binding info multipart/related 69b [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Hugo will send to list the history and discuss alignment issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: Kevin fixes editorial POST/GET and safety edits by Apr 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: lc80 proposal to Arthur by Apr 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh to inquire about Glen and 7.2 for primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh to look into Robertos 75g proposal, April 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh to review Bijan's issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh to see about Berlin logistics, APril 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Pauld to propose issue for extensibility/versioning for wsdl using schema 1.0, due April 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Pauld will respond to 107 by april 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/31-ws-desc-minutes.html#action06]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.121 (CVS log)
$Date: 2005/03/30 20:35:17 $