W3C

WS Description WG telcon

8 Dec 2005

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Charlton Baretto, Adobe Systems
Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software
Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
Paul Downey, British Telecommunications
Youenn Fablet, Canon
Hugo Haas, W3C
Anish Karmarkar, Oracle
Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universitšt Innsbruck, Austria
Amelia Lewis, TIBCO
Bozhong Lin, IONA Technologies
Kevin Canyang Liu, SAP
Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems
Tony Rogers, Computer Associates
Arthur Ryman, IBM
Regrets
Tom Jordahl, Macromedia
Vivek Pandey, Sun Microsystems
Bijan Parsia, University of Maryland MIND Lab
Sanjiva Weerawarana, WS02
Chair
Marsh
Scribe
JacekK

Contents


<scribe> scribe: JacekK

Nov9 joint minutes approval

Jonathan_Marsh: the minutes are raw and don't contain full WS-A attendance, nor do they contain any decisions
... do we need to approve them?
... do we need a more polished form of these?
... Nov9 minutes left as-is

Nov17 minutes approval

Jonathan_Marsh: some corrections done and posted

minutes approved (for Nov 17)

action items

Review of Action items [.1]. 

?         2005-07-21: pauld to write a proposal for a working group 
                      report for requirements for schema evolution 
                      following closure of LC124 
?         2005-10-20: Kendall to contact DAWG to ask for contribution to

                      test suite, due 2005-10-27. 
?         2005-11-10: Hugo will start adding assertions to Part 2. 
?         2005-11-10: Marsh to take the IRI issue to the CG, due
                      2005-11-16. 
DONE      2005-11-11: Arthur to construct instructions sheet, and assign
                      sections for each member of the group to insert 
                      assertion markup, due 2005-11-16.
DONE      2005-11-17: Arthur to work on the remaining editorial 
                      action items, due 2005-11-18. 
DONE      2005-11-17: Sanjiva to propose a new table format, due
                      2005-11-18. 
DONE      2005-11-17: Marsh to add link to test coverage page from our 
                      web site, due 2005-11-18. 
DONE      2005-11-17: Marsh to debug/improve test coverage page, 
                      due 2005-11-18. 
DONE      2005-11-17: Arthur to modify the style sheets to eliminate 
                      the assertions table from the CR drafts, due 
                      2005-11-18.

Current Editorial Action Items 
?         2005-07-21: Arthur to add stable identifiers for each 
                      assertion, due 2005-09-26. 

Note: Editorial AIs associated with LC issues recorded at [.2]. 

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/lc-issues/actions_owner.html

<Arthur> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/assert-yourself.html

administrivia

Jonathan_Marsh: Jan long-telcon meeting not sent to w3 calendar yet, but that will happen soon
... following meeting scheduled for Cannes, no new info
... propose to cancel 12/22 and 12/29 telcons
... and most likely also canceling 12/15, will see tomorrow
... we have a CR call tomorrow

Kevin: how many objections do we have?

Jonathan_Marsh: 2 formal objections, a number of comments that we didn't fulfill
... formal objections: against f&p; against f&p without compositors
... the not-accepted comments are usually the WG against the commentor who is in minority
... that is 8 comments remaining
... the director will consider and rule on the formal objections tomorrow
... I sent a list of requirements that we gathered earlier and haven't fulfilled, mostly should-level requirements
... there's only one MUST requirement that's a little funny

CR issues

Jonathan_Marsh: no CR issues list started yet, but identifiers already running
... cr001 - a summary of all the SHOULD suggestions

Arthur: it would be validation warning-level things, but we shouldn't give them new identifiers
... the implementors give us the markup for assertions, the first priority is the MUST requirements, we shouldn't spend much work identifying the SHOULDs
... I'd recommend just an attribute on an assertion to indicate what is required and what not

RESOLUTION: CR001 accepted as a good suggestion, will start the CR issues list

CR002: import and include extensibility

Jonathan_Marsh: the issue is spec inconsistency, some parts (text) say extensions are allowed, other say otherwise (schema)

amy: my question is what the rules for producing components are in light of extensions on imports and includes

alewis: I'm not sure we should have the broad applicability of these extensions
... my issue is not specific to imports and includes
... we could get ourselves in a big tangle with our component model
... I'd like to have some more discussion about the extensions to Description

Arthur: our spec is silent on extensions in general, we don't restrict what they do
... we allow extensions to do whatever they will, it's up to the extension designer to do it sensibly
... we might want to err in the direction of openness

Jonathan_Marsh: it looks like a question of a baby in the bath water
... it seems we turned down Arthur's limitations on extensibility

alewis: you really can't turn off extensions, we'd get slapped
... but we may want to point out that one might get oneself in trouble unless they are careful designing these extensions
... I think all agree that we could allow import and include extensions in the schema
... but we might want to take a hard look and produce a warning

<Jonathan_Marsh> ACTION: Amy to propose text warning about the knots one can tie oneself up in when writing an extension. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/08-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]

Arthur: section 6 would be a good home for this text

Jonathan_Marsh: it seems nobody thinks we should forbid extensibility of import/include

PARTIAL RESOLUTION: import/include will allow extensibility (make schema agree with spec)

<scribe> ACTION: Arthur to update the schema to allow extensibility of import/include [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/08-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]

ACTION 2=Arthur to update the schema to allow extensibility of import/include (after CR publication)

hugo: it's better to hold off changes to the spec until we've published
... discussion about whether this should be folded into the CR version

Jonathan_Marsh: let's put this change in the spec now, I'll take the heat if this sparks trouble

ACTION 2=Arthur to update the schema to allow extensibility of import/include

hugo: we need to record that we've accepted and fixed this

<Jonathan_Marsh> ACTION: Marsh will respond [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/08-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]

hugo: and I need to know about it when the change happens

ACTION 3=Marsh will respond to CR002 issue raiser

W3C xpointer scheme registry

Jonathan_Marsh: our schemes are entered in there, only the person who enters the scheme can update it so I have most of them except for the one entered by Henry earlier
... just FYI, basically

CR testing issues/progress

Arthur: woden project just released 2nd milestone, reading documents, constructing and querying component model etc.

Jonathan_Marsh: is there any functionality that's not implemented?

Arthur: it's types and interface so far, it seems
... it's a parser, validator, component model
... all validation rules are going to take a while

Jonathan_Marsh: based on progress so far, when do you think you'd reach full WSDL functionality?

Arthur: Q1 next year, I'd say
... it is open source, contributors welcome

RDF mapping

JacekK: rdf mapping issues will be submitted soon
... they will form RDF mapping agenda items
... haven't heard from Bijan about mapping tables
... but may have more time in January so that shouldn't be so much of a problem
... should have substantially more complete draft by next f2f

wrap-up

hugo: I'm hopeful that we might be publishing next week

Jonathan_Marsh: we may be canceling the telcon, unless there's something we can usefully do

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Amy to propose text warning about the knots one can tie oneself up in when writing an extension. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/08-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Arthur to update the schema to allow extensibility of import/include [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/08-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh will respond [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/08-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2005/12/08 17:06:59 $