See also: IRC log
Present: Erik Ackerman Lexmark David Booth W3C Allen Brookes Rogue Wave Software Roberto Chinnici Sun Microsystems Ugo Corda SeeBeyond Glen Daniels Sonic Software Paul Downey British Telecommunications Youenn Fablet Canon Hugo Haas W3C Hao He Thomson Tom Jordahl Macromedia Amelia Lewis TIBCO Kevin Canyang Liu SAP Jonathan Marsh Chair (Microsoft) Josephine Micallef Telcordia/SAIC Jeff Mischkinsky Oracle Dale Moberg Cyclone Commerce Jean-Jacques Moreau Canon David Orchard BEA Systems Bijan Parsia University of Maryland MIND Lab Arthur Ryman IBM Igor Sedukhin Computer Associates William Vambenepe Hewlett-Packard Sanjiva Weerawarana IBM Umit Yalcinalp Oracle Prasad Yendluri webMethods, Inc. Regrets: None
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - May 6th [.1]
APPROVED
? 2004-01-28: Philippe and JMarsh will look at the ip
scribe: test suite.
<scribe> PENDING
<scribe> DONE [.2] 2004-02-12: DaveO to produce a refined proposal for
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: HTTP binding addressing the concerns of
...that object to leaving replyTo info out
? 2004-04-01: Marsh will get schema tf going.
<scribe> PENDING
<scribe> DONE [.3] 2004-04-29: Arthur to write up concerns about XML 1
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: implications on WSDL 2.0 for potential
...forwarding to XML WG.
? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor
scribe: draft on media types ready for our May
...meeting in NYC.
<scribe> PENDING
? 2004-04-29: Part 1 editors to adopt Jacek's "purpos
scribe: binding" text, without "interchangeable
...endpoints, and using "confidentiality"
...similar) instead of TLS.
<scribe> PENDING
? 2004-05-06: JJM to incorporate this proposal (SOAP
scribe: Binding) after removing parts that are
...to media type and intermediary
<scribe> PENDING, partially done
<scribe> DONE 2004-05-06: Marsh to draft David O or Hugo to write
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: proposal for describing the requirement
...capabilities bucket of http features
? 2004-05-06: Part 3 editors to incorporate Sanjiva's
scribe: proposal.
<scribe> DONE
? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor
scribe: draft on media types ready for our May
...meeting in NYC.
<scribe> DONE (Umit arrived and updated us)
Jonathan: Will try to get draft agenda out EOD Friday
Proposed testing meeting Thursday afternoon in NYC for those
Umit: What's up with MTOM/XOP?
Jonathan: We should have some discussion about that at the F2
...Goal was to finish all issues - not too likely at t
Kevin: Phone access?
Sanjiva: Should be phone, but not sure of quality...
...c. Review of I18N WS Task Force documents [.6]
[.6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: a. Media type description
...- Draft of first WD for WG approval by May FTF.
Jonathan: Would be good to get consensus on publishing the dr
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Track operation safety (TAG) [.2]
Opening new issue
scribe: - Normative dependence on XML Schema 1.0 precludes XML 1.1
...- Can a WSDL 2.0 XML 1.1 document contain (or reference), a
...- Is it valid for a XML 1.1 document to import or include a
Add new issues
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0093.
Hugo: (summarizes proposal)
Jonathan: Big question is do we want extensibility at the me
David: Wanted to see concrete proposal before going ahead.
Jonathan: Issues with having a QName as opposed to an HTTP-sp
Arthur: Why not just a string?
Jonathan: Name collisions, IBM-foo vs. Microsoft-foo
Arthur: Arent these HTTP verbs? GET, POST, etc?
Hugo: This came from discussion of using HTTP method as metho
...This means you need to specify a bunch of things, which
<pauld> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0042.h
Sanjiva: Clarify what this proposal is about?
Jonathan: Status quo == a string for method, with various oth
Sanjiva: For common usage, the HTTP method might be variable,
...Capture extensibility in
...HTTP methods by using a String
Arthur: Combining how you're serializing with the method seem
DavidO: Maybe we should change "method" to "method-and-relate
Paul: On the wire, both IBM:BUY and MS:BUY would be the same.
DavidO: Tooling would know that particular serializations, et
Umit: There's a distinction between method and the other stuf
JeffM: Does this lead to everyone defining QNames for every c
DavidO: Basic HTTP should only have a few. Trying to provide
JeffM: How does this optimize for the simple case, do we spec
DavidO: For basic HTTP, yes
JeffM: Why not F&P, by the way?
Hugo: Table 3.1 is modelled on the XForms submission table, a
<umit> +1 to Arthur
Arthur: Why not just have attributes for basic stuff like me
<sanjiva> I'm confused as to why we don't introduce http:serialization
<Arthur> +1 to Sanjiva
DavidO: F&P vs. WSDL extensibility is a separate issue
<Arthur> +1
<Arthur> +q
DavidO: We have use cases for this stuff, but they aren't gre
<umit> +1 to Marsh :-)
<sanjiva> +1 too!
Jonathan: Why isn't it better to enable extensibility for eac
DavidO: Worried about a more-complex-looking proposal...
Arthur: QName makes spec harder to read (as opposed to "GET",
...Doesn't scale if you need new QName for every combo
DavidO: Do we have a "full potato" proposal?
Hugo: Had one, but it looked overly complicated...
scribe note - "full potato" == allow setting all properties i
DavidO: Can the group see it?
Jonathan: Would no extensibility for method be OK?
Arthur: We clearly have a requirement from somewhere (WEBDAV)
Jonathan: Isn't strictly a requirement yet...
<Zakim> sanjiva, you wanted to make a proposal
Arthur: Why exclude WEBDAV folks, though
<pauld> and Atom uses PUT and DELETE ...
Sanjiva: Change method name to string, values are same as HTT
...Then introduce properties as needed
Jonathan: Yes, you mean the "full potato"
...Big question is do we want a full-featured HTTP bin
<sanjiva> In my mind, doing a full featured HTTP binding begs for prof
DavidO: Want to make this real, and will peel however many po
Arthur: Simple case shouldn't be complicated.
Jonathan: If you say "PUT" that should default other properti
<sanjiva> I'm against defaulting serialization format - just make it a
Hugo: Full potato with clever defaulting is what we should ex
Jonathan: Sounds like...
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Summary:
...+ HTTP Version
...+ Content coding
...+ Transfer Codings (Chunked encoding)
...+ Caching (Vary, etc.)
...+ Content Negotiation ?
[.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/
DavidO: Certain common cases will cause Content coding not to
(darn return key)
DavidO: ...used
...Two buckets - required and extensions. Transfer codi
Jonathan: Clear that some of these things are needed, and the
...Need to figure out which of these things goes in, s
...Do we need these in the core spec? (back to questio
DavidO: Getting most of the HTTP functionality seems pretty s
Jonathan: Looks like adding 10-15 attributes, which in most c
Glen: If people want to do these things, we should supply the
Jonathan: How many folks are psyched about implementing this?
Arthur: Setting all this stuff up doesn't have a lot of benef
...It's really a small optimization (saving round trips)
<dbooth> GlenD: If you're a cell phone, an additional round trip is a bi
Paul: +1 to Glen, mobile interactions are expensive, so optim
...Also, optimization in general (GZIP available, etc) is
DavidO: BEA has been deploying GET and POST with tweakable se
...You need to know what uname/pw to use, for instance,
<pauld> how to describe a service is protected by BA is something i'm
Sanjiva: May be properties which affect the programming model
...Rest as hints/optimizations are OK
Paul: Can we reuse this stuff with the SOAP HTTP binding?
Glen: SOAP HTTP binding is different than WSDL HTTP binding
Paul: Lots of useful work here.. why not reuse?
Glen: Would want to vet anything like that (adding properties
Jonathan: Anyone +1 Arthur's concern about not going there wi
TomJ: +1
Jonathan: Most folks sound like they're up for some level of
DavidO: Two things - 1) "full potato" proposal, 2) Transfer-c
Jonathan: Would be good to have proposed syntax for each of t
<scribe> ACTION: Dave Orchard to produce proposal for expressing Trans
greek chorus: <silence>
Jonathan: If no proposals, we won't put 'em in...
<dbooth> [Meeting Adjourned]