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RE: FW: Minutes, 13 May 2004 WS Desc telcon

From: <paul.downey@bt.com>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:12:36 +0100
Message-ID: <2B7789AAED12954AAD214AEAC13ACCEF0FFF226B@i2km02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net>
To: <ygoland@bea.com>, <jmarsh@microsoft.com>
Cc: <www-ws-desc@w3.org>
me too..

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org on behalf of Yaron Y. Goland 
	Sent: Thu 20/05/2004 18:51 
	To: Jonathan Marsh 
	Cc: www-ws-desc@w3.org 
	Subject: Re: FW: Minutes, 13 May 2004 WS Desc telcon
	
	


	Is it just me or does every sentence look chopped off in these minutes?
	
	Jonathan Marsh wrote:
	
	>
	>
	> -----Original Message-----
	> From: Glen Daniels [mailto:gdaniels@sonicsoftware.com]
	> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:50 AM
	> To: Jonathan Marsh
	> Subject: Minutes
	>
	>
	> Jonathan:
	>
	> Here are the generated minutes for the telcon last week.  It looks a
	> little weird to me in a couple of places, but that just seems to be on
	> my machine - looks OK on David Booth's.
	>
	> I cut out the AI review since the script kind of mangled that based on
	> the way I did it (cutting and pasting with line breaks confused the
	> script), and David said you usually put that stuff in anyway.
	>
	> I didn't know how to merge the attendance record in, so I just put it in
	> a <pre> tag.  If this isn't right, please let me know how you like it
	> done and I'll fix it.
	>
	> --Glen
	>
	>
	> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
	>
	> <http://www.w3.org/>
	>
	>
	>   WSDL Telcon
	>   13 May 2004
	>
	> See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2004/05/13-ws-desc-irc>
	>
	>
	>     Attendees
	>
	> Present:
	>  Erik Ackerman          Lexmark
	>  David Booth            W3C
	>  Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
	>  Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
	>  Ugo Corda              SeeBeyond
	>  Glen Daniels           Sonic Software
	>  Paul Downey            British Telecommunications
	>  Youenn Fablet          Canon
	>  Hugo Haas              W3C
	>  Hao He                 Thomson
	>  Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
	>  Amelia Lewis           TIBCO
	>  Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
	>  Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
	>  Josephine Micallef     Telcordia/SAIC
	>  Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
	>  Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
	>  Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
	>  David Orchard          BEA Systems
	>  Bijan Parsia           University of Maryland MIND Lab
	>  Arthur Ryman           IBM
	>  Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
	>  William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
	>  Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
	>  Umit Yalcinalp         Oracle
	>  Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.
	>
	> Regrets:
	>  None
	>
	>
	>     Contents
	>
	>     * Topics <#agenda>
	>          1. 2. Approval of minutes <#item01>
	>          2. 3. Review of Action item [.1]. <#item02>
	>          3. 4. Administrivia <#item03>
	>          4. 5. Task Force Status. <#item04>
	>          5. 6. New Issues. Issues list [.1]. <#item05>
	>          6. 7. Issue 54: Allow binding to any HTTP method [.1] <#item06>
	>          7. 8. HTTP [optimization] properties [.1]: <#item07>
	>     * Summary of Action Items <#ActionSummary>
	>
	>
	>       2. Approval of minutes
	>
	> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - May 6th [.1]
	>
	> APPROVED
	>
	>
	>       3. Review of Action item [.1].
	>
	> ? 2004-01-28: Philippe and JMarsh will look at the ip
	>
	> scribe: test suite.
	>
	> <scribe> PENDING
	>
	> <scribe> DONE [.2] 2004-02-12: DaveO to produce a refined proposal for
	>
	> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: HTTP binding addressing the concerns of
	> ...that object to leaving replyTo info out
	>
	> ? 2004-04-01: Marsh will get schema tf going.
	>
	> <scribe> PENDING
	>
	> <scribe> DONE [.3] 2004-04-29: Arthur to write up concerns about XML 1
	>
	> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: implications on WSDL 2.0 for potential
	> ...forwarding to XML WG.
	>
	> ? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor
	>
	> scribe: draft on media types ready for our May
	> ...meeting in NYC.
	>
	> <scribe> PENDING
	>
	> ? 2004-04-29: Part 1 editors to adopt Jacek's "purpos
	>
	> scribe: binding" text, without "interchangeable
	> ...endpoints, and using "confidentiality"
	> ...similar) instead of TLS.
	>
	> <scribe> PENDING
	>
	> ? 2004-05-06: JJM to incorporate this proposal (SOAP
	>
	> scribe: Binding) after removing parts that are
	> ...to media type and intermediary
	>
	> <scribe> PENDING, partially done
	>
	> <scribe> DONE 2004-05-06: Marsh to draft David O or Hugo to write
	>
	> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: proposal for describing the requirement
	> ...capabilities bucket of http features
	>
	> ? 2004-05-06: Part 3 editors to incorporate Sanjiva's
	>
	> scribe: proposal.
	>
	> <scribe> DONE
	>
	> ? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor
	>
	> scribe: draft on media types ready for our May
	> ...meeting in NYC.
	>
	> <scribe> DONE (Umit arrived and updated us)
	>
	>
	>       4. Administrivia
	>
	> Jonathan: Will try to get draft agenda out EOD Friday
	>
	> Proposed testing meeting Thursday afternoon in NYC for those
	>
	> Umit: What's up with MTOM/XOP?
	>
	> Jonathan: We should have some discussion about that at the F2
	> ...Goal was to finish all issues - not too likely at t
	>
	> Kevin: Phone access?
	>
	> Sanjiva: Should be phone, but not sure of quality...
	> ...c. Review of I18N WS Task Force documents [.6]
	>
	> [.6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/

	>
	>
	>       5. Task Force Status.
	>
	> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: a. Media type description
	> ...- Draft of first WD for WG approval by May FTF.
	>
	> Jonathan: Would be good to get consensus on publishing the dr
	>
	>
	>       6. New Issues. Issues list [.1].
	>
	> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Track operation safety (TAG) [.2]
	>
	> Opening new issue
	>
	> scribe: - Normative dependence on XML Schema 1.0 precludes XML 1.1
	> ...- Can a WSDL 2.0 XML 1.1 document contain (or reference), a
	> ...- Is it valid for a XML 1.1 document to import or include a
	>
	> Add new issues
	>
	>
	>       7. Issue 54: Allow binding to any HTTP method [.1]
	>
	> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0093.

	>
	> Hugo: (summarizes proposal)
	>
	> Jonathan: Big question is do we want extensibility at the me
	>
	> David: Wanted to see concrete proposal before going ahead.
	>
	> Jonathan: Issues with having a QName as opposed to an HTTP-sp
	>
	> Arthur: Why not just a string?
	>
	> Jonathan: Name collisions, IBM-foo vs. Microsoft-foo
	>
	> Arthur: Arent these HTTP verbs? GET, POST, etc?
	>
	> Hugo: This came from discussion of using HTTP method as metho
	> ...This means you need to specify a bunch of things, which
	>
	> <pauld> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0042.h

	>
	> Sanjiva: Clarify what this proposal is about?
	>
	> Jonathan: Status quo == a string for method, with various oth
	>
	> Sanjiva: For common usage, the HTTP method might be variable,
	> ...Capture extensibility in
	> ...HTTP methods by using a String
	>
	> Arthur: Combining how you're serializing with the method seem
	>
	> DavidO: Maybe we should change "method" to "method-and-relate
	>
	> Paul: On the wire, both IBM:BUY and MS:BUY would be the same.
	>
	> DavidO: Tooling would know that particular serializations, et
	>
	> Umit: There's a distinction between method and the other stuf
	>
	> JeffM: Does this lead to everyone defining QNames for every c
	>
	> DavidO: Basic HTTP should only have a few. Trying to provide
	>
	> JeffM: How does this optimize for the simple case, do we spec
	>
	> DavidO: For basic HTTP, yes
	>
	> JeffM: Why not F&P, by the way?
	>
	> Hugo: Table 3.1 is modelled on the XForms submission table, a
	>
	> <umit> +1 to Arthur
	>
	> Arthur: Why not just have attributes for basic stuff like me
	>
	> <sanjiva> I'm confused as to why we don't introduce http:serialization
	>
	> <Arthur> +1 to Sanjiva
	>
	> DavidO: F&P vs. WSDL extensibility is a separate issue
	>
	> <Arthur> +1
	>
	> <Arthur> +q
	>
	> DavidO: We have use cases for this stuff, but they aren't gre
	>
	> <umit> +1 to Marsh :-)
	>
	> <sanjiva> +1 too!
	>
	> Jonathan: Why isn't it better to enable extensibility for eac
	>
	> DavidO: Worried about a more-complex-looking proposal...
	>
	> Arthur: QName makes spec harder to read (as opposed to "GET",
	> ...Doesn't scale if you need new QName for every combo
	>
	> DavidO: Do we have a "full potato" proposal?
	>
	> Hugo: Had one, but it looked overly complicated...
	>
	> scribe note - "full potato" == allow setting all properties i
	>
	> DavidO: Can the group see it?
	>
	> Jonathan: Would no extensibility for method be OK?
	>
	> Arthur: We clearly have a requirement from somewhere (WEBDAV)
	>
	> Jonathan: Isn't strictly a requirement yet...
	>
	> <Zakim> sanjiva, you wanted to make a proposal
	>
	> Arthur: Why exclude WEBDAV folks, though
	>
	> <pauld> and Atom uses PUT and DELETE ...
	>
	> Sanjiva: Change method name to string, values are same as HTT
	> ...Then introduce properties as needed
	>
	> Jonathan: Yes, you mean the "full potato"
	> ...Big question is do we want a full-featured HTTP bin
	>
	> <sanjiva> In my mind, doing a full featured HTTP binding begs for prof
	>
	> DavidO: Want to make this real, and will peel however many po
	>
	> Arthur: Simple case shouldn't be complicated.
	>
	> Jonathan: If you say "PUT" that should default other properti
	>
	> <sanjiva> I'm against defaulting serialization format - just make it a
	>
	> Hugo: Full potato with clever defaulting is what we should ex
	>
	> Jonathan: Sounds like...
	>
	>
	>       8. HTTP [optimization] properties [.1]:
	>
	> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Summary:
	> ...+ HTTP Version
	> ...+ Content coding
	> ...+ Transfer Codings (Chunked encoding)
	> ...+ Caching (Vary, etc.)
	> ...+ Content Negotiation ?
	>
	> [.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/

	>
	> [.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/

	>
	> [.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/

	>
	> DavidO: Certain common cases will cause Content coding not to
	>
	> (darn return key)
	>
	> DavidO: ...used
	> ...Two buckets - required and extensions. Transfer codi
	>
	> Jonathan: Clear that some of these things are needed, and the
	> ...Need to figure out which of these things goes in, s
	> ...Do we need these in the core spec? (back to questio
	>
	> DavidO: Getting most of the HTTP functionality seems pretty s
	>
	> Jonathan: Looks like adding 10-15 attributes, which in most c
	>
	> Glen: If people want to do these things, we should supply the
	>
	> Jonathan: How many folks are psyched about implementing this?
	>
	> Arthur: Setting all this stuff up doesn't have a lot of benef
	> ...It's really a small optimization (saving round trips)
	>
	> <dbooth> GlenD: If you're a cell phone, an additional round trip is a bi
	>
	> Paul: +1 to Glen, mobile interactions are expensive, so optim
	> ...Also, optimization in general (GZIP available, etc) is
	>
	> DavidO: BEA has been deploying GET and POST with tweakable se
	> ...You need to know what uname/pw to use, for instance,
	>
	> <pauld> how to describe a service is protected by BA is something i'm
	>
	> Sanjiva: May be properties which affect the programming model
	> ...Rest as hints/optimizations are OK
	>
	> Paul: Can we reuse this stuff with the SOAP HTTP binding?
	>
	> Glen: SOAP HTTP binding is different than WSDL HTTP binding
	>
	> Paul: Lots of useful work here.. why not reuse?
	>
	> Glen: Would want to vet anything like that (adding properties
	>
	> Jonathan: Anyone +1 Arthur's concern about not going there wi
	>
	> TomJ: +1
	>
	> Jonathan: Most folks sound like they're up for some level of
	>
	> DavidO: Two things - 1) "full potato" proposal, 2) Transfer-c
	>
	> Jonathan: Would be good to have proposed syntax for each of t
	>
	> <scribe> *ACTION:* Dave Orchard to produce proposal for expressing Trans
	>
	> greek chorus: <silence>
	>
	> Jonathan: If no proposals, we won't put 'em in...
	>
	> <dbooth> [Meeting Adjourned]
	>
	>
	>     Summary of Action Items
	>
	> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Dave Orchard to produce proposal for expressing Trans
	> 
	> Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl 1.79
	> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribe.perl> (CVS log
	> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/scribe.perl>)
	> $Date: 2004/05/11 13:37:20 $
	>
	
	

Received on Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:13:03 GMT

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