RE: FW: Minutes, 13 May 2004 WS Desc telcon

me too..

 -----Original Message----- 
 From: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org on behalf of Yaron Y. Goland 
 Sent: Thu 20/05/2004 18:51 
 To: Jonathan Marsh 
 Cc: www-ws-desc@w3.org 
 Subject: Re: FW: Minutes, 13 May 2004 WS Desc telcon
 
 


 Is it just me or does every sentence look chopped off in these minutes?
 
 Jonathan Marsh wrote:
 
 >
 >
 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Glen Daniels [mailto:gdaniels@sonicsoftware.com]
 > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:50 AM
 > To: Jonathan Marsh
 > Subject: Minutes
 >
 >
 > Jonathan:
 >
 > Here are the generated minutes for the telcon last week.  It looks a
 > little weird to me in a couple of places, but that just seems to be on
 > my machine - looks OK on David Booth's.
 >
 > I cut out the AI review since the script kind of mangled that based on
 > the way I did it (cutting and pasting with line breaks confused the
 > script), and David said you usually put that stuff in anyway.
 >
 > I didn't know how to merge the attendance record in, so I just put it in
 > a <pre> tag.  If this isn't right, please let me know how you like it
 > done and I'll fix it.
 >
 > --Glen
 >
 >
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >
 > <http://www.w3.org/>
 >
 >
 >   WSDL Telcon
 >   13 May 2004
 >
 > See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2004/05/13-ws-desc-irc>
 >
 >
 >     Attendees
 >
 > Present:
 >  Erik Ackerman          Lexmark
 >  David Booth            W3C
 >  Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
 >  Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
 >  Ugo Corda              SeeBeyond
 >  Glen Daniels           Sonic Software
 >  Paul Downey            British Telecommunications
 >  Youenn Fablet          Canon
 >  Hugo Haas              W3C
 >  Hao He                 Thomson
 >  Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
 >  Amelia Lewis           TIBCO
 >  Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
 >  Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
 >  Josephine Micallef     Telcordia/SAIC
 >  Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
 >  Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
 >  Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
 >  David Orchard          BEA Systems
 >  Bijan Parsia           University of Maryland MIND Lab
 >  Arthur Ryman           IBM
 >  Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
 >  William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
 >  Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
 >  Umit Yalcinalp         Oracle
 >  Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.
 >
 > Regrets:
 >  None
 >
 >
 >     Contents
 >
 >     * Topics <#agenda>
 >          1. 2. Approval of minutes <#item01>
 >          2. 3. Review of Action item [.1]. <#item02>
 >          3. 4. Administrivia <#item03>
 >          4. 5. Task Force Status. <#item04>
 >          5. 6. New Issues. Issues list [.1]. <#item05>
 >          6. 7. Issue 54: Allow binding to any HTTP method [.1] <#item06>
 >          7. 8. HTTP [optimization] properties [.1]: <#item07>
 >     * Summary of Action Items <#ActionSummary>
 >
 >
 >       2. Approval of minutes
 >
 > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - May 6th [.1]
 >
 > APPROVED
 >
 >
 >       3. Review of Action item [.1].
 >
 > ? 2004-01-28: Philippe and JMarsh will look at the ip
 >
 > scribe: test suite.
 >
 > <scribe> PENDING
 >
 > <scribe> DONE [.2] 2004-02-12: DaveO to produce a refined proposal for
 >
 > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: HTTP binding addressing the concerns of
 > ...that object to leaving replyTo info out
 >
 > ? 2004-04-01: Marsh will get schema tf going.
 >
 > <scribe> PENDING
 >
 > <scribe> DONE [.3] 2004-04-29: Arthur to write up concerns about XML 1
 >
 > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: implications on WSDL 2.0 for potential
 > ...forwarding to XML WG.
 >
 > ? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor
 >
 > scribe: draft on media types ready for our May
 > ...meeting in NYC.
 >
 > <scribe> PENDING
 >
 > ? 2004-04-29: Part 1 editors to adopt Jacek's "purpos
 >
 > scribe: binding" text, without "interchangeable
 > ...endpoints, and using "confidentiality"
 > ...similar) instead of TLS.
 >
 > <scribe> PENDING
 >
 > ? 2004-05-06: JJM to incorporate this proposal (SOAP
 >
 > scribe: Binding) after removing parts that are
 > ...to media type and intermediary
 >
 > <scribe> PENDING, partially done
 >
 > <scribe> DONE 2004-05-06: Marsh to draft David O or Hugo to write
 >
 > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: proposal for describing the requirement
 > ...capabilities bucket of http features
 >
 > ? 2004-05-06: Part 3 editors to incorporate Sanjiva's
 >
 > scribe: proposal.
 >
 > <scribe> DONE
 >
 > ? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor
 >
 > scribe: draft on media types ready for our May
 > ...meeting in NYC.
 >
 > <scribe> DONE (Umit arrived and updated us)
 >
 >
 >       4. Administrivia
 >
 > Jonathan: Will try to get draft agenda out EOD Friday
 >
 > Proposed testing meeting Thursday afternoon in NYC for those
 >
 > Umit: What's up with MTOM/XOP?
 >
 > Jonathan: We should have some discussion about that at the F2
 > ...Goal was to finish all issues - not too likely at t
 >
 > Kevin: Phone access?
 >
 > Sanjiva: Should be phone, but not sure of quality...
 > ...c. Review of I18N WS Task Force documents [.6]
 >
 > [.6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/

 >
 >
 >       5. Task Force Status.
 >
 > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: a. Media type description
 > ...- Draft of first WD for WG approval by May FTF.
 >
 > Jonathan: Would be good to get consensus on publishing the dr
 >
 >
 >       6. New Issues. Issues list [.1].
 >
 > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Track operation safety (TAG) [.2]
 >
 > Opening new issue
 >
 > scribe: - Normative dependence on XML Schema 1.0 precludes XML 1.1
 > ...- Can a WSDL 2.0 XML 1.1 document contain (or reference), a
 > ...- Is it valid for a XML 1.1 document to import or include a
 >
 > Add new issues
 >
 >
 >       7. Issue 54: Allow binding to any HTTP method [.1]
 >
 > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0093.

 >
 > Hugo: (summarizes proposal)
 >
 > Jonathan: Big question is do we want extensibility at the me
 >
 > David: Wanted to see concrete proposal before going ahead.
 >
 > Jonathan: Issues with having a QName as opposed to an HTTP-sp
 >
 > Arthur: Why not just a string?
 >
 > Jonathan: Name collisions, IBM-foo vs. Microsoft-foo
 >
 > Arthur: Arent these HTTP verbs? GET, POST, etc?
 >
 > Hugo: This came from discussion of using HTTP method as metho
 > ...This means you need to specify a bunch of things, which
 >
 > <pauld> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0042.h

 >
 > Sanjiva: Clarify what this proposal is about?
 >
 > Jonathan: Status quo == a string for method, with various oth
 >
 > Sanjiva: For common usage, the HTTP method might be variable,
 > ...Capture extensibility in
 > ...HTTP methods by using a String
 >
 > Arthur: Combining how you're serializing with the method seem
 >
 > DavidO: Maybe we should change "method" to "method-and-relate
 >
 > Paul: On the wire, both IBM:BUY and MS:BUY would be the same.
 >
 > DavidO: Tooling would know that particular serializations, et
 >
 > Umit: There's a distinction between method and the other stuf
 >
 > JeffM: Does this lead to everyone defining QNames for every c
 >
 > DavidO: Basic HTTP should only have a few. Trying to provide
 >
 > JeffM: How does this optimize for the simple case, do we spec
 >
 > DavidO: For basic HTTP, yes
 >
 > JeffM: Why not F&P, by the way?
 >
 > Hugo: Table 3.1 is modelled on the XForms submission table, a
 >
 > <umit> +1 to Arthur
 >
 > Arthur: Why not just have attributes for basic stuff like me
 >
 > <sanjiva> I'm confused as to why we don't introduce http:serialization
 >
 > <Arthur> +1 to Sanjiva
 >
 > DavidO: F&P vs. WSDL extensibility is a separate issue
 >
 > <Arthur> +1
 >
 > <Arthur> +q
 >
 > DavidO: We have use cases for this stuff, but they aren't gre
 >
 > <umit> +1 to Marsh :-)
 >
 > <sanjiva> +1 too!
 >
 > Jonathan: Why isn't it better to enable extensibility for eac
 >
 > DavidO: Worried about a more-complex-looking proposal...
 >
 > Arthur: QName makes spec harder to read (as opposed to "GET",
 > ...Doesn't scale if you need new QName for every combo
 >
 > DavidO: Do we have a "full potato" proposal?
 >
 > Hugo: Had one, but it looked overly complicated...
 >
 > scribe note - "full potato" == allow setting all properties i
 >
 > DavidO: Can the group see it?
 >
 > Jonathan: Would no extensibility for method be OK?
 >
 > Arthur: We clearly have a requirement from somewhere (WEBDAV)
 >
 > Jonathan: Isn't strictly a requirement yet...
 >
 > <Zakim> sanjiva, you wanted to make a proposal
 >
 > Arthur: Why exclude WEBDAV folks, though
 >
 > <pauld> and Atom uses PUT and DELETE ...
 >
 > Sanjiva: Change method name to string, values are same as HTT
 > ...Then introduce properties as needed
 >
 > Jonathan: Yes, you mean the "full potato"
 > ...Big question is do we want a full-featured HTTP bin
 >
 > <sanjiva> In my mind, doing a full featured HTTP binding begs for prof
 >
 > DavidO: Want to make this real, and will peel however many po
 >
 > Arthur: Simple case shouldn't be complicated.
 >
 > Jonathan: If you say "PUT" that should default other properti
 >
 > <sanjiva> I'm against defaulting serialization format - just make it a
 >
 > Hugo: Full potato with clever defaulting is what we should ex
 >
 > Jonathan: Sounds like...
 >
 >
 >       8. HTTP [optimization] properties [.1]:
 >
 > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Summary:
 > ...+ HTTP Version
 > ...+ Content coding
 > ...+ Transfer Codings (Chunked encoding)
 > ...+ Caching (Vary, etc.)
 > ...+ Content Negotiation ?
 >
 > [.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/

 >
 > [.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/

 >
 > [.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/

 >
 > DavidO: Certain common cases will cause Content coding not to
 >
 > (darn return key)
 >
 > DavidO: ...used
 > ...Two buckets - required and extensions. Transfer codi
 >
 > Jonathan: Clear that some of these things are needed, and the
 > ...Need to figure out which of these things goes in, s
 > ...Do we need these in the core spec? (back to questio
 >
 > DavidO: Getting most of the HTTP functionality seems pretty s
 >
 > Jonathan: Looks like adding 10-15 attributes, which in most c
 >
 > Glen: If people want to do these things, we should supply the
 >
 > Jonathan: How many folks are psyched about implementing this?
 >
 > Arthur: Setting all this stuff up doesn't have a lot of benef
 > ...It's really a small optimization (saving round trips)
 >
 > <dbooth> GlenD: If you're a cell phone, an additional round trip is a bi
 >
 > Paul: +1 to Glen, mobile interactions are expensive, so optim
 > ...Also, optimization in general (GZIP available, etc) is
 >
 > DavidO: BEA has been deploying GET and POST with tweakable se
 > ...You need to know what uname/pw to use, for instance,
 >
 > <pauld> how to describe a service is protected by BA is something i'm
 >
 > Sanjiva: May be properties which affect the programming model
 > ...Rest as hints/optimizations are OK
 >
 > Paul: Can we reuse this stuff with the SOAP HTTP binding?
 >
 > Glen: SOAP HTTP binding is different than WSDL HTTP binding
 >
 > Paul: Lots of useful work here.. why not reuse?
 >
 > Glen: Would want to vet anything like that (adding properties
 >
 > Jonathan: Anyone +1 Arthur's concern about not going there wi
 >
 > TomJ: +1
 >
 > Jonathan: Most folks sound like they're up for some level of
 >
 > DavidO: Two things - 1) "full potato" proposal, 2) Transfer-c
 >
 > Jonathan: Would be good to have proposed syntax for each of t
 >
 > <scribe> *ACTION:* Dave Orchard to produce proposal for expressing Trans
 >
 > greek chorus: <silence>
 >
 > Jonathan: If no proposals, we won't put 'em in...
 >
 > <dbooth> [Meeting Adjourned]
 >
 >
 >     Summary of Action Items
 >
 > *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Dave Orchard to produce proposal for expressing Trans
 > 
 > Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl 1.79
 > <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribe.perl> (CVS log
 > <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/scribe.perl>)
 > $Date: 2004/05/11 13:37:20 $
 >

Received on Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:13:03 UTC