W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-ws-desc@w3.org > March 2004

Re: Normative vs Non-normative Notes (was Re: Other suggested editorial changes)

From: Jean-Jacques Moreau <jean-jacques.moreau@crf.canon.fr>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:00:17 +0100
Message-ID: <4059D5A1.10407@crf.canon.fr>
To: David Booth <dbooth@w3.org>
Cc: Umit Yalcinalp <umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com>, Roberto Chinnici <Roberto.Chinnici@Sun.COM>, Sanjiva Weerawarana <sanjiva@watson.ibm.com>, Martin Gudgin <mgudgin@microsoft.com>, Jeffrey Schlimmer <jeffsch@windows.microsoft.com>, www-ws-desc@w3.org

DONE all, as per the editor's new AI.

JJ.

David Booth wrote:

> 
> Umit,
> 
> I checked over all 7 Notes that currently exist in our Part1 text, and 
> it seems clear to me that some (or some parts) were intended to be 
> normative but others not, as I detailed in
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Mar/0161.html
> 
> I do see this as largely an editorial or presentational issue, because 
> as Sanjiva mentioned, I'm not trying to *change* the intended normative 
> status of anything, I'm just trying to our document is clear and 
> consistent about which status each statement is supposed to have.
> 
> 
> 
> At 02:52 PM 3/17/2004 -0800, Umit Yalcinalp wrote:
> 
> 
>> David Booth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Evidently different people have different ideas about whether "Notes" 
>>> are supposed to be normative, so we need to straighten this out.  We 
>>> currently have some Notes that are intended to be normative and 
>>> others that are intended to be non-normative.  (I'll address the 
>>> individual Notes in a separate message.)
>>
>>
>>
>> David,
>>
>> I am struggling to understand why categorizing a Note is an issue. I 
>> was always under the impression that a note, well is a note, one would 
>> just write a note to focus on a requirement (or a non requirement) or 
>> to clarify a requirement. As long as the spec language is obeyed 
>> (rfc2119), the language in the note is explicit about whether 
>> something is normative or not, why do we need to change anything?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --umit
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To focus on the general editorial question, I guess I see four options:
>>> (a) Have normative Notes only -- Delete non-normative text or move it 
>>> to a section that is already non-normative.
>>> (b) Have non-normative Notes only -- Move normative text into a 
>>> paragraph of its own in the text.
>>> (c) Have normative Notes AND non-normative Notes.
>>> (d) Have no Notes at all.
>>>
>>> At present, the spec suggests option a, because Section 1.2 says:
>>> [[
>>> All parts of this specification are normative, with the EXCEPTION of 
>>> pseudo-schemas, examples, and sections explicitly marked as 
>>> "Non-Normative".
>>> ]]
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that informative, non-normative notes can be very 
>>> helpful to the reader, so I would prefer option b or c.  And of these 
>>> two, I think option b would be better, as it will be simpler to 
>>> implement and less messy.  (In a companion message, I'll itemize what 
>>> I think needs to be done to each existing Note.)
>>>
>>> What do others think?
>>>
>>>
>>> At 10:45 AM 3/17/2004 -0800, Roberto Chinnici wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: "David Booth" <dbooth@w3.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. We should clearly say that any paragraph marked "Note" is
>>>>>> non-normative.  I suggest using the term "Non-normative Note" 
>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>> just "Note" to mark each Note.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we do this with a stylesheet change? I have not dealt with this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't this change result into all notes being demoted to 
>>>> non-normative ex post facto?
>>>>
>>>> I would object to the note on using the type of the wsdl:service 
>>>> element
>>>> becoming all of a sudden non-normative, as that was not the resolution
>>>> we recorded consensus on. Others may object to other notes undergoing
>>>> a similar treatment.
>>>>
>>>> Roberto
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Roberto Chinnici
>>>> Java Web Services
>>>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>>> roberto.chinnici@sun.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Umit Yalcinalp
>> Consulting Member of Technical Staff
>> ORACLE
>> Phone: +1 650 607 6154
>> Email: umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com
>>
>>
> 
Received on Thursday, 18 March 2004 12:01:16 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 7 December 2009 10:58:30 GMT