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Re: Correction for the f2f Minutes (Also action 2004-01-30 for Jonathan)

From: Umit Yalcinalp <umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 02:03:25 -0800
Message-ID: <4045AD6D.4020101@oracle.com>
To: Jonathan Marsh <jmarsh@microsoft.com>
Cc: WS Description List <www-ws-desc@w3.org>


Jonathan Marsh wrote:

>Thanks for the work on this Umit.  One reason I didn't complete the
>action is that I had some doubts about your correction that required
>more research.
>
>My initial recollection was that we were making it possible to reuse
><wsdl:service> in the body of a message as one way to indicate a service
>reference.  I've been checking some of my personal notes on the topic
>and they concur with the minutes as they were posted.
>  
>
The logs of the CVS illustrates that this is a typo as I have 
illustrated and what we were discussing is not the
wsdl:service but wsdl:Service.

>As I recall, the schema prevented <wsdl:service> from being reused
>because it wasn't a global element.  
>
This issue has nothing to do with reusing service as a service 
reference. This was a separate decision
of the f2f. There were two separate resolutions in the meeting.


>We made it global to remedy this,
>made the rest of the top-level elements global for consistency, and
>opened an issue on whether @name should be optional.  
>
The remedy is not about the service references.

>This issue
>wouldn't make much sense if we were depending on the wsdl:Service type.
>
It is, because the type itself made the name attribute required. This is 
already corrected tobe
optional in the schema and it allows the wsdl:Service to be reused for 
extension. It is impossible to
reuse the element technically anyway if one wants to extend the 
definition of the type and fix the
interface/bindings by using schema. The whole point of the exercise was 
to illustrate what we can do with schema without using additional 
mechanisms in WSDL.

>Roberto's proposal was not adopted, but provides some good scenarios
>which might be useful in developing the primer topic illustrating the
>reuse of <wsdl:service/>
>
Roberto's proposal was not adopted, that is correct. Roberto proposed 
using a new service reference type which we have proven to be 
unnecessary and decided to use wsdl:Service type. I am actually waiting 
for him to confirm this as well.

However, Roberto's proposal depends on type extension and the primer can 
only show reuse of wsdl:Service.

>
>It would be more than a typo to change <wsdl:service> (which is clearly
>an element) to "wsdl:Service type" in the resolution.  However, it
>doesn't seem that the illustration of <wsdl:service> in the primer
>prevents one from deriving an element from wsdl:ServiceType if that's
>what you wanted to do.
>  
>
It is a typo as I have illustrated per the records. The issue is not 
about preventing its use but what we say in the specification to guide 
people what they can do.

>We've got the topic of this correction on the FTF agenda - I hope we can
>treat it as a historical question and not as a design review :-).
>  
>
Sanjiva's writeup is correct and I don't think opening it is necessary 
as it illustrates my recollection of the matter and also follows the 
historical progress of the service definition in the schema that I 
illustrated in this thread ;-)

--umit

>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-desc-request@w3.org]
>>    
>>
>On
>  
>
>>Behalf Of Umit Yalcinalp
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 6:32 PM
>>To: WS Description List
>>Subject: Correction for the f2f Minutes (Also action 2004-01-30 for
>>Jonathan)
>>
>>
>>We have taken the decision to include a paragraph to the Part 1
>>Specification regarding service references. However, there was a typo
>>    
>>
>in
>  
>
>>the recording of the decision made in [1]. This email is intended to
>>clarify this situation for Jonathan [4].
>>
>>We have made two decisions as recorded and numbered here for
>>    
>>
>reference:
>  
>
>>(1) RESOLVED: Add a paragraph in the spec describing that
>>    
>>
><wsdl:service>
>  
>
>>can
>>          show up on the wire as a service reference.  Primer will
>>    
>>
>have
>  
>
>>some
>>          examples (see Roberto's counterproposal as a basis).
>>
>>(2) RESOLVED: Make top WSDL elements global in the schema to
>>    
>>
>facilitate
>  
>
>>reuse.
>>
>>The first resolution is in error due to a typo. The minutes should
>>    
>>
>have
>  
>
>>been recorded as wsdl:Service, instead of wsdl:service.
>>
>>The reason this typo creates a confusion is due to the second
>>    
>>
>resolution
>  
>
>>that was taken that day. Prior to the f2f meeting, we did
>>not have the WSDL components represented as top level elements in the
>>schema.  The components were only represented via their types. Per
>>resolution 2, components became top level elements and schema has been
>>changed to reflect this decision.
>>
>>Prior to implementing Resolutions 1 and 2, the schema did not contain
>>the global "wsdl:service" element, only "wsdl:Service" type. This fact
>>alone is enough to illustrate the typo. The schema showed that each
>>    
>>
>WSDL
>  
>
>>component type named with a complexType declaration using the
>>    
>>
>convention
>  
>
>>in naming, such as "wsdl:Interface", "wsdl:Service", etc. as shown in
>>    
>>
>[2].
>  
>
>>Per resolution 2, the names of the complexTypes have been changed to
>>"wsdl:InterfaceType", "wsdl:ServiceType", etc. with the addition of
>>    
>>
>top
>  
>
>>level elements that are defined using these types, such as
>>"wsdl:interface", "wsdl:service" etc. as shown in WSDL Schema [3].
>>
>>The decision in the minutes must be changed to represent a service
>>reference is by using wsdl:Service type (or a type derived from
>>wsdl:Service) to reflect the naming in the schema at the time [2] or
>>    
>>
>to
>  
>
>>reflect the current name, the name of the type that is currently used
>>"wsdl:ServiceType". This will avoid confusion.
>>
>>The whole point of the exercise was to get Schema derivations to
>>statically lock in the interface and/or bindings in the type that is
>>illustrated by Roberto's proposal. Further, schema derivation can not
>>    
>>
>be
>  
>
>>achieved using anelement that the typo seems to suggest. Hence it must
>>be corrected.
>>
>>As a matter of fact, those present at the discussions & presentations
>>that were relevant to this topic, would remember that wsdl:Service
>>    
>>
>type
>  
>
>>was frequently referred to as the "Big-S-Service", and created enough
>>giggles in the room while Arthur was giving our presentation during
>>    
>>
>the
>  
>
>>previous f2f [5]. ;-)
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>--umit
>>
>>[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Nov/0061.html
>>[2]
>>
>>    
>>
>http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20.xsd?rev=1
>.3
>  
>
>>&content-type=text/xml
>>[3]
>>
>>    
>>
>http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20.xsd?rev=1
>.5
>  
>
>>&content-type=text/xml
>>[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Feb/0011.html
>>[5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Sep/0188.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Umit Yalcinalp
>>Consulting Member of Technical Staff
>>ORACLE
>>Phone: +1 650 607 6154
>>Email: umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>

-- 
Umit Yalcinalp                                  
Consulting Member of Technical Staff
ORACLE
Phone: +1 650 607 6154                          
Email: umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com
Received on Wednesday, 3 March 2004 05:04:21 GMT

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