W3C

WS Description WG Teleconference
18 Sep 2003

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present:

 Erik Ackerman          Lexmark
Mike Ballantyne Electronic Data Systems
David Booth W3C
Allen Brookes Rogue Wave Software
Roberto Chinnici Sun Microsystems
Paul Downey British Telecommunications
Dietmar Gaertner Software AG
Tom Jordahl Macromedia
Jacek Kopecky Systinet
Philippe Le Hégaret W3C
Steve Lind AT&T
Lily Liu webMethods
Jonathan Marsh Chair (Microsoft)
Ingo Melzer DaimlerChrysler
Dale Moberg Cyclone Commerce
Jean-Jacques Moreau Canon
Bijan Parsia University of Maryland MIND Lab
Arthur Ryman IBM
Adi Sakala IONA Technologies
Jeffrey Schlimmer Microsoft
Jerry Thrasher Lexmark
Sanjiva Weerawarana IBM
Umit Yalcinalp Oracle

Regrets:

 Glen Daniels           Macromedia
Sandeep Kumar Cisco Systems
Amelia Lewis TIBCO
Steve Graham GGF
Igor Sedukhin Computer Associates
William Vambenepe Hewlett-Packard
Kevin Liu SAP

Chair: Jonathan Marsh

Scribe: Roberto Chinnici

Contents


Approval of minutes

Scribe: approved without objections

Review of action items

Scribe: ACTION: 2003-07-31: Philippe to make a proposal for fixing the HTTP binding -- PENDING
... ACTION: 2003-09-04: Phillipe to put the link to WSDL validator on the same place where other tools are listed -- DONE
... ACTION: 2003-09-04: Jacek to review Appendix E in light of message removal -- PENDING
... ACTION: 2003-09-11: Kevin to check whether there's a room available -- DONE
... ACTION: 2003-09-11: Sanjiva to take care of the extensibility of import and include -- DONE
... ACTION: 2003-09-11: Sanjiva to take care about REQUIRED AII explict (editorial) -- DONE
... ACTION: 2003-09-11: Jeffsch to record redundant direction info as an issue -- DONE
... ACTION: 2003-09-11: Philippe to write a response to Mark Baker proposing a property solution to HTTP verbs and ask whether this satisfies his request -- PENDING

Draft agenda for the f2f

Marsh: on removing message, issue with encoding style rules for rpc

Philippe: draft agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Sep/0120.html

Sanjiva: work still needed on the rules, Umit to propose more detailed ones

jeffsch: add discussion on this to the agenda

Marsh: first thing monday morning

Sanjiva: some work needs to be done before the meeting

Umit: would like to add some more rules to the list

Sanjiva: got the rules from soap 1.1 spec

Marsh: next topic is binding enhancements
... are some of those issues (80-86) easier/harder than others?

Sanjiva: 83 is intractable
... goal should be to finalize as much as possible of the soap binding
... 84 is the biggest, 81 editorial

Marsh: let's spend our time on 84 and the "unresolved proposal"
... please review the soap spec in time for the meeting
... media type discussion is on wednesday morning
... could consider moving the media type discussion to early monday afternoon

Scribe: plh: can somebody do an update on MTOM?
... jjm: I could do it remotely

Philippe: Jacek: I can do it

Marsh: it's important to make progress on the media type issue
... patterns discussion on monday afternoon
... then wsdl validator tool demo by Arthur
... moved to monday when the attribute discussion got moved to tuesday
... tuesday are endpoint references and attributes
... will the attribute TF have a new proposal?

Umit: haven't talked to the other participants

Marsh: TF was to incorporate Sanjiva's remarks
... agenda for wednesday
... Arthur's proposal to unify property uris and qname uris
... at the end of the morning, WSDL component designators

Roberto: what about the potential new issues?

Marsh: if we have time, we can handle them at the end; some of them may be high priority and gain a place on the agenda

Scribe: arthur: meeting at the crowne plaza at 7pm on sunday to discuss r085

More administrivia

Marsh: for the january f2f, preference is Boston

Task force status

Marsh: got responses to the comments on the qa guidelines
... Amy is the source of most of the comments but she's not around today
... will put this on the agenda in two weeks
... got request to implement the qa operational guidelines
... spec is in CR
... they'd like us to evaluate our current procedures against the guidelines
... and send back comments on the guidelines
... anybody else interested besides myself, philippe and dbooth?

Scribe: plh: we may have to take action based on the guidelines

Marsh: no requirement to implement the guidelines (yet)

Scribe: ACTION: Philippe, Marsh to review the QA operational guidelines

New issues

Marsh: chameleon imports

Roberto: proposal to remove the special xsd:import functionality

Arthur: Theoretical or practical?

Roberto:
Noticed when thinking about implementation
... Solution is to disallow chameleon imports, document the workaround...

Arthur: happy to resolve it now and disallow chameleon imports

Umit: +1

Marsh: any objections?

Scribe: no answer

jeffsch: I will add this to the Editors TODO

Scribe: RESOLUTION: disallow chameleon import behavior

Marsh: renaming operation to messageExchange
... we decided not to open an issue last week, but got 30 messages in the meantime
... should we open an issue?

Tomj: I'm opposed to renaming operation

Umit: disagrees with tom

Tomj: it's a change from wsdl 1.1

dbooth: it's a syntactic question, let's vote on it at the face to face

Roberto: current names are fine

JacekK: if there are semantic changes, we need to see them in writing

Umit: operation is misleading, it has more semantics than intended

Marsh: various options: vote next week; record an issue, let the thread run, then decide

jeffsch: It will be issue 88

Marsh: let's wait a couple of weeks before deciding on issue 88
... should we discuss changing from WSDL 1.2 to 2.0?

Arthur: +1

plh: cannot get approval from the director before the f2f

Marsh: at the f2f, we can decide to recommend that we are allowed to change the name

Marsh: ACTION: Put 1.2/2.0 item on FTF agenda

Marsh: another argument, parallel between SOAP 1.2 and WSDL 1.2
... binding message reference in the component model

Roberto: Message definition and binding are no longer parallel. One now uses "name", the other uses "messageReference".

jeffsch: It will be issue 89
... Is this the proposal we're discussing? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Sep/0077.html

Roberto: yes

Marsh: ACTION: Put #89 on FTF agenda

Marsh: add http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Sep/0077.html to the agenda (10 minute item)
... next issue: change pattern to message exchange pattern
... any reason to consider this non-editorial?
... no objections, it's going to be an editorial issue
... other thread, consider using "service provider/requester"

dbooth: push back from amy against "requester"
... WSA decided on these terms months ago and reconfirmed them at the last f2f

Marsh: record an issue on this

Ingo: I like our terms better.

Marsh: do we want to drop this issue?

plh: should try to synchronize terms
... or write back to the wsa group and explain why we don't want to use them

Marsh: make it a new issue then

jeffsch: It will be issue 90

Marsh: "pattern description precludes multicast"
... is it editorial?

Philippe: re terms: see '"Roots" of confusion introduced at W3C' http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xsl-editors/2000JulSep/0084.html

dbooth: replied quoting the patterns doc, not the TF findings

Scribe: ACTION: dbooth to ping amy on whether she is satisfied that the current patterns draft adequately permits multicast

Marsh: any other topics we'd like to discuss?

Ingo: +1

Philippe: (forwarded in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-forum/2000JulSep/0215.html)

 jjm: "pattern" attribute - should we rename it?

Marsh: email from Sanjiva on merging the patterns document back into part 1
... done for today, see you next week in Palo Alto!

MEETING ADJOURNED

Summary of Action Items

[PENDING] ACTION: 2003-07-31: Philippe to make a proposal for fixing the HTTP binding
[PENDING] ACTION: 2003-09-04: Jacek to review Appendix E in light of message removal
[PENDING] ACTION: 2003-09-11: Philippe to write a response to Mark Baker proposing a property solution to HTTP verbs and ask whether this satisfies his request
[NEW] ACTION: Put 1.2/2.0 item on FTF agenda
[NEW] ACTION: dbooth to ping amy on whether she is satisfied that the current patterns draft adequately permits multicast
[NEW] ACTION: Put #89 on FTF agenda
[NEW] ACTION: Philippe, Marsh to review the QA operational guidelines



Minutes formatted by David Booth's perl script: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
$Date: 2003/09/16 14:21:07 $