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RE: Minutes: 19 Sept 2002 WS Description WG

From: Liu, Kevin <kevin.liu@sap.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:55:31 +0200
Message-ID: <99CA63DD941EDC4EBA897048D9B0061DA953E5@uspalx20a.pal.sap-ag.de>
To: "'Stumbo, William K'" <WStumbo@crt.xerox.com>, www-ws-desc@w3.org
Cc: jmarsh@microsoft.com

Hi Bill, Hi Jonathan,

two minor corrections:

8.  BindingType proposal from Kevin [12].
>     Response from Jacek [13].
> 
> 2002-09-19:  Jeffery raised some concerns:

It's Jacek who raised the concerns, not Jeffery

>              - data model for binding is inconsistent with 
> other models.  

This is not a concern, instead it's brought up as a reason for changing the current construct


Regards,
Kevin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stumbo, William K [mailto:WStumbo@crt.xerox.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 10:15 AM
> To: www-ws-desc@w3.org
> Cc: jmarsh@microsoft.com; Stumbo, William K
> Subject: Minutes: 19 Sept 2002 WS Description WG
> 
> 
> 
> Web Services Description Working Group
>    September 19, 2002
> 
> Attendance
> 
> Present:
>  Mike Ballantyne        Electronic Data Systems
>  David Booth            W3C
>  Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
>  Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
>  Glen Daniels           Macromedia
>  Youenn Fablet          Canon
>  Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
>  Jacek Kopecky          Systinet
>  Sandeep Kumar          Cisco Systems
>  Philippe Le Hégaret    W3C
>  Amelia Lewis           TIBCO
>  Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
>  Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
>  Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
>  Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
>  Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
>  Arthur Ryman           IBM
>  Waqar Sadiq            Electronic Data Systems	
>  Adi Sakala             IONA Technologies
>  Jeffrey Schlimmer      Microsoft
>  Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
>  William Stumbo         Xerox
>  Jerry Thrasher         Lexmark
>  William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
>  Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
>  Don Wright             Lexmark
>  Joyce Yang             Oracle
> 
> Regrets:
>  Michael Champion       Software AG
>  Laurent De Teneuille   L'Echangeur
>  Tim Finin              University of Maryland
>  Dietmar Gaertner       Software AG
>  Steve Graham           Global Grid Forum
>  Martin Gudgin          Microsoft
>  Dan Kulp               IONA
>  Steve Lind             AT&T
>  Michael Mealling       Verisign
>  Stefano Pogliani       Sun
>  Daniel Schutzer        Citigroup
>  Dave Solo              Citigroup
>  Steve Tuecke           Global Grid Forum
>  Barbara Zengler        DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
>  Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.
> 
> Absent:
>  Mike Davoren           W. W. Grainger
>  Michael Mahan          Nokia
>  Pallavi Malu           Intel
>  Mike McHugh            W. W. Grainger
>  Don Mullen             Tibco
>  Johan Pauhlsson        L'Echangeur
>  Sandra Swearingen      U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Air Force
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Assign scribe.  Lucky minute taker for this week is:
>       Bill Stumbo (yee haw!)
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 2.  Approval of minutes:
>     - Sept 5 telcon [3]
>       Approved.
> 
>     - Sept 9-11 FTF [4]
>       Approved.
> 
>       Minor concern about misquotes in IRC log.  Discussion on minutes
>       vs. transcription.  General concern with identifying key points.
>       Suggestion to use section headings to help group topics.
> 
> AI -- all:  Send any missing action items to Jonathan's attention.
> 
> 
> [3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0023.html
> [4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0065.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 3.  Review of Action items.
> DONE     2002-07-21: GlenD to send DavidB details on hosting November
>                      F2F
>                      2002-09-19:  URL posted to IRC. [25]
>                      Glen states to expect additional updates
> [25] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/04/f2fNovLogistics.html
> 
> RETIRED  2002-07-21: Jeffrey & Gudge to flesh out a proposal for
>                      omitting operation from soap binding.
> 
>                      2002-09-19:  Part of the hoisting 
> proposal.  Need to
> verify
>                      completeness in upcoming draft.
> 
> CONTINUE 2002-07-21: Don Mullen to write up
>                      an issue on making the transport attribute 
>                      match the SOAP binding framework. 
> 
>                      2002-09-19:  Action item reworded.
> 
> DONE [5] 2002-09-05: Deitmar to extract remaining 
> questions/issues from 
>                      [6] and sent out in a new email thread 
> to be opened
>                      as a new issue(s).
> 
> 
> Face to face actions follow:
> 
> PENDING  2002-09-09: Sanjiva to redo part 3.2 of his binding proposal.
> 
> PENDING  2002-09-09: Gudge to check whether there is already an issue
>                      against Part 2: can you define different 
>                      encodingStyles for different children of 
>                      soap:Body (message parts).
> 
> PENDING  2002-09-10: Steve and Gudge to write up the portType 
> extensibility
>                      proposal.
>                      
>                      2002-09-19:  Action item reworded.
> 
> PENDING  2002-09-10: Sanjiva to produce a proposal for equivalence of 
>                      (at least) top-level components in the 
> next couple 
>                      of weeks.
> 
> PENDING  2002-09-10: Gudge; Jeffrey Schlimmer; Roberto et al to write
> proposal 
>                      to remove message and replace with complexType.
> 
>                      2002-09-19:  Action item wording agreed to.
> 
>                      Roberto stated the goal is to determine 
> what it would
> look
>                      like if we use XML Schema constructs 
> instead of message
>                      constructs.  
> 
> DONE [7] 2002-09-10: Arthur to kick off thread on @element vs. @type,
>                      perhaps by showing how to convert an existing 
>                      @element into @type.
> 
> DONE [8] 2002-09-10: Arthur to write up direction and rationale to 
>                      drop @use=encoded and post to wsdl wg 
> public list. 
> 
> PENDING  2002-09-10: Gudge to provide summary of using xml schema to 
>                      wrap other type systems at an appropriate level 
>                      of abstraction.
> 
> PENDING  2002-09-11: Sanjiva to describe out/out-in for pub-sub. [I
>                      think this should be pub-sub _without_ 
> out/out-in.]
>  
>                      2002-09019:  Form a task force (Joyce, 
> Sandeep, Igor,
>                      Steve T, Sanjiva, Adi, Roberto, Amy) to prepare
> presentation
>                      about adding pub/sub as a first class 
> citizen of WSDL
> 1.2.
> 
>                      Sanjiva will send a note to the list describing a
> starting 
>                      position and seeking comment.
> 
> PENDING  2002-09-11: Jeffrey and Don define TCP binding.
> 
> New Actions as of 2002-09-19:
> 
>          2002-09-19: Sanjiva will write a Java binding
> 
>          2002-09-19: Sanjiva provide updates on Use Scenarios 
> document to
>                      Architecture Group.  
>                      Need to determine whether this activity 
> should be in
> the
>                      architecture group or moved outside.  
> 
> [5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0019.html
> [6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2002Jul/0016.html
> [7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0055.html
> [8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0054.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 4.  FTF planning:
> 
>     Nov F2F:
> 
> 2002-09-19:  No joint meeting time scheduled with the Architecture
>              group at present.  Can schedule if needed.  Rooms
>              available for 3 days of solid meeting.
>  
>              Meetings will be planned from Monday AM through 
> Wednesday PM.
> 
>     Jan FTF.
>  
> 2002-09-19: Sri Lanka or Sydney?  About 25 people stated they could
>             attend in Sydney.  3 people stated they could not travel.
>             Jonathan will poll working group to ensure that Sydney
>             will work.  Host Art Hague, not member of working group.
> 
>             Alternatives if Sri Lanka or Sydney do not work out:
>               Vancouver, BC [Dave Orchard]
>               Toronto, ON  [Arthur Ryman]
>               New York, NY [Sanjiva Weerawarana]
> 
>             Plan would be to meet week of January 14 or 21.  Need firm
>             offers by next week (2002-09-19)
> 
>   Tech plenary March 3-7 in Boston, we could meet 3-4 or 6-7.
> 
> 2002-09-19: Do we want a meeting in conjunction with Tech Plenary?
>             General consensus is yes, some concern with only 2 days
>             of meeting and conflicts with other working groups.
> 
>             Plan is to go forward with planning WG F2F at 
> Tech Plenary.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 5.  Arch harvesting of WSDL [9].  Need reviewers.
> 
> 2002-09-19:  Arch group is attempting to harvest some of our work.
>              Who can take a look and see if they are taking good stuff
>              from them.
> 
>              Jean-Jacques -- document looks reasonable.
> 
>              Pending:  Review next week. Would like input from more
> individuals.
> 
> [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Jul/0349.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 6.   Requirements [10]
>      Need to finish up and publish again.
> 
> 2002-09-19: Table for one week.  Need information from Gudge on
>             Semantic Web requirement.  
> 
>             Action:  Review document for 9/26/02 meeting.
> 
> [10]
> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/requirements/
ws-desc-reqs.h
> tml#binddesc
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 7.  New Issues
> 	WSDL and INLINE Schema Definitions [11]
> 
> 2002-09-19:  Gudge had indicated new issues to be added. 
> 
>              Enumeration of potential issues: 
>               - Disallow importing of schemas except via
>               - No predefined types of elements added to an 
> embedded schema
>               - Schema embedded in WSDL must have target 
> namespace.  Cannot
> define
>                 names in the undeclared namespace.
>   
>               Follow-up left to the editors.
> 
> [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0025.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 8.  BindingType proposal from Kevin [12].
>     Response from Jacek [13].
> 
> 2002-09-19:  Jeffery raised some concerns:
>              - new user/novice user will find it hard to understand
>                where information should go.  Can be addressed 
> by adding
>                a new attribute 
>              - data model for binding is inconsistent with 
> other models.  
>              - should we consider this with Sanjiva's proposal?
>              - can we break this down into small issues that can be
> considered
>                separately?
> 
>              Jacek -- concerns were summarized well.  
> Reusable binding is
> aim.
>              This idea is probably 2.0 material and not 1.2.  
> 
>              Roberto -- Clarifying question:  The use of term 
> binding type
>              is confusing.  Port and port type have a clear 
> relationship.
>              This proposal doesn't have a clear mapping.  
> Binding & Binding
>              type.  Kevin agrees that a better name would be useful.
> 
>              Is the group interested in continuing to pursue 
> this action?
> 
>              Straw Poll says we should continue to pursue.
>                 Continue:  13
>                 Stop:       1
>                 Abstain:   11
> 
>              Kevin asks that anyone with particular issues or 
> concerns let
>              him know so he can attempt to address them.
> 
>              Revisit next week.
> 
> [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Aug/0009.html
> [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0043.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 9.  Issue 2: SOAPAction has been deprecated, as of SOAP 1.2 [14].
>     Jean-Jacques proposal at [15].  Jacek's addendum at [16].
> 
> 2002-09-19:  Jean-Jacques summary:  WG wanted something better then
> SOAPAction.
>              Want a more general method in WSDL.  Introduce new
>              element <http:field> to the HTTP binding.  Also, 
> introduce an
>              equivalent <soap:field> element to the SOAP binding.
> 
>              Jacek -- proposed name change as well as noted that some
>              transports do not need to have MIME fields, and most MIME
>              fields will not have parameters.  Current proposal leaves
>              to much room for inconsistencies. 
> 
>              Glen -- this relates to a proposal on properties 
> [24], there
>              is a general pattern we should consider. 
> 
>              Jonathan -- group needs to review the property 
> stuff in more
> detail.  
> 
>              SOAP Action can turn into a property.
> 
>              Do we need to make a late comment to the XML 
> Protocol group?  
> 
>              ACTION:  Glen will look and see status of SOAP 
> Actions.  Draft
>              potential last call comment to XML Protocols Group.  
> 
> [14] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x2
> [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0050.html
> [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0056.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 10. Issue 18: Default for transport of <soap:binding> [17]. Jeffrey's
> proposal at [18].
> 
> 2002-09-19:  This item was closed at 2002-09-05 teleconference:
>              Resolution (per 2002-09-05 minutes):
>                   Issue 18 to be closed per [18] to make the transport
> attribute
>                   mandatory for the <soap:binding> element.
> 
>                   Issue 28 still open and may be discussed at 
> F2F if time
> permits.
> 
> 
> [17] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x18
> [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0122.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 11. Issue 28: transport='uri' [19]
> 
> 2002-09-19:  Defer until after Glen's proposal.
> 
> [19] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x28
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 12. HTTP Binding Issues (6a, 41)
>     Jeffrey recommends no change [20].
>     Sanjiva is mulling this over [21].
> 
>     2002-09-19:  Waiting on Sanjiva -- need to introduce HTTP header
>                  and / or cookie as part of binding.  Differ 
> until after
>                  Glen's proposal.
> 
>                  Should this issue be broadened to say support of all
>                  features of the transport.  Again, Glen's 
> proposal will
>                  spur this conversation along.
> 
> [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0102.html
> [21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0067.html
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 13. Issue 25: Interaction between W3C XML Schema and SOAP Data Model 
>     Gudge's explains at [22], Roberto's options at [23].
>     Waiting for more detail in ACM?
> 
>     2002-09-19:  Waiting for Gudge to provide more detail/wisdom
>                  on abstract component model. 
> 
> [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0186.html
> [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0071.html
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> 14. A slice at a proposal for SOAP features/properties in WSDL [24].
>     Glen Daniels
> 
>     2002-09-19:  Move up on agenda for next week, key to a lot of the
>                  binding work.
> 
>                  Read proposal for next week.
> 
> [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0004.html
> 
> Respectfully submitted,
> 
> Bill Stumbo   
> Xerox Innovation Group
> Solutions & Services Technology Center
> 
> wstumbo@crt.xerox.com
>     Phone:	585.422.0616
>     Fax:	585.265.8424
> 
Received on Tuesday, 29 October 2002 18:36:31 GMT

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