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RE: Orchestration (was: W3C Web Service Description WG: Require ments)

From: VAMBENEPE,WILLIAM (HP-Cupertino,ex1) <william_vambenepe@hp.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:59:21 -0400
Message-ID: <155C6BB395577C4EA8F65A9ADA9F2104DA8805@xcup01.cup.hp.com>
To: www-ws-desc@w3.org, www-ws-arch@w3.org

Jon,

Since WSCL came out of HP, I volunteer to try to extract WSDL requirements
from it and get input from the people at HP who wrote WSCL.

Regards,

William


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Marsh [mailto:jmarsh@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 10:59 AM
> To: www-ws-desc@w3.org; www-ws-arch@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Orchestration (was: W3C Web Service Description WG:
> Requirements)
> 
> 
> Here are my two cents, and attempt to focus this thread into concrete
> action.
> 
> As pointed out, orchestration is clearly outside the scope of our
> charter.  Making sure the WS description language has 
> adequate hooks or
> extensibility to enable composition and orchestration is in scope.
> 
> At this stage, we are collecting requirements, use cases, and issues
> against WSDL 1.1.  Analysis of WSCL and orchestration needs can inform
> each of those efforts.  I'd encourage anyone somewhat 
> familiar with WSCL
> and orchestration in general to analyze the requirements and use cases
> and provide comments and corrections.  More particular comments or
> design ideas can be tracked as issues.  Do I have volunteers for this
> task?
> 
> PS - switching to the public list, since that's where this 
> thread really
> belongs, and all the information is already public.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Krishna Sankar [mailto:ksankar@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 11:31 AM
> > To: 'Web Services Private'; www-ws-arch@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: Orchestration (was: W3C Web Service Description WG:
> Requireme
> > nts)
> > 
> > Jeff,
> > 
> > 	Even though I cannot disagree on "orchestration as a form of
> > composition", I would put orchestration in the execution of web
> > services. Remember, a web service might not know the orchestration
> when
> > it is composed - for a variety of reasons incl the fact that
> > orchestration would change depending on the output of the execution.
> > 
> > 	IMHO, the *architecture* should consider and provide for
> > orchestration; the WSDL should also provide "hooks"  for
> orchestration.
> > One reason I see is the propagation of context and state which helps
> > orchestration, another one is at least a place holder for
> orchestration
> > related metadata like the engine URI. The WSDL cannot assume that a
> web
> > service starts and end by itself with out any colloboration 
> and effect
> > on other "related" services.
> > 
> > cheers
> > 
> >  | -----Original Message-----
> >  | From: w3c-ws-desc-request@w3.org
> >  | [mailto:w3c-ws-desc-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Mischkinsky
> >  | Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 10:55 AM
> >  | To: Sadiq, Waqar; Jean-Jacques Moreau; Jeffrey Schlimmer
> >  | Cc: Web Services Private; Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com; 
> www-ws-arch@w3.org
> >  | Subject: RE: Orchestration (was: W3C Web Service Description
> >  | WG: Requireme nts)
> >  |
> >  |
> >  | The charter for the WSDWG specifically says that 
> composition of web
> >  | services is out of scope. I don't think it's a particularly
> >  | big stretch to
> >  | regard "orchestration" as a form of composition.
> >  |
> >  |    jeff
> >  | At 07:05 AM 4/5/02, Sadiq, Waqar wrote:
> >  |
> >  |
> >  | >I am cross-posting this to the architecture group also.  I
> >  | personally
> >  | >believe that a description language and orchestration
> >  | language belong to
> >  | >different stacks in the web services reference model (none
> >  | exists yet).
> >  | >
> >  | >I believe that orchestration layer adds a level of business
> >  | intelligence
> >  | >that leverages the web services layer (described by WSDL)
> >  | but the two are
> >  | >not the same.
> >  | >
> >  | >I vote to defer WSCL to the architecture group for
> >  | consideration and not
> >  | >change the scope of what we are doing with WSDL.
> >  | >
> >  | >Thanks,
> >  | >
> >  | >
> >  | >_______________________________________________
> >  | >Waqar Sadiq
> >  | >
> >  | >EDS EIT ESAI - Enterprise Consultant
> >  | >MS: H3-4C-22
> >  | >5400 Legacy Drive
> >  | >Plano, Texas 75024
> >  | >
> >  | >phone: +01-972-797-8408 (8-837)
> >  | >e-mail: waqar.sadiq@eds.com
> >  | >fax: +01-972-605-4071
> >  | >_______________________________________________
> >  | >
> >  | >
> >  | >
> >  | >-----Original Message-----
> >  | >From: Jean-Jacques Moreau [mailto:moreau@crf.canon.fr]
> >  | >Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 2:18 AM
> >  | >To: Jeffrey Schlimmer
> >  | >Cc: Web Services Private; Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com
> >  | >Subject: Orchestration (was: W3C Web Service Description
> >  | WG: Requirements)
> >  | >
> >  | >[Switching to w3c-ws-desc, since this may touch on member
> >  | confidential
> >  | >issues.]
> >  | >
> >  | >Orchestration brings the question: what are we supposed to
> >  | do with WSCL [1]?
> >  | >This does not seem to be considered out-of-scope [2], and
> >  | the team's comment
> >  | >was that it should be brought to our attention [3]. Does
> >  | this indicate a
> >  | >possible refinent for operations?
> >  | >
> >  | >Jean-Jacques.
> >  | >
> >  | >[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/wscl10/
> >  | >[2] http://www.w3.org/2002/01/ws-desc-charter
> >  | >[3] http://www.w3.org/Submission/2002/02/Comment
> >  | >
> >  | >Jeffrey Schlimmer wrote:
> >  | >
> >  | > > R097: I'd suggest change it to "Must". (Now, this is NOT
> >  | covered by
> >  | > > R036!)
> >  | > > [jeffsch: I agree that this is part of a general Web
> >  | Service definition,
> >  | > > but I don't agree that this is appropriate to describe
> >  | in WSDL; it seems
> >  | > > to border on orchestration.]
> >  | > >
> >  | > > -- Igor Sedukhin .. (Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com)
> >  |
> >  | --
> >  | Jeff Mischkinsky                    jeff.mischkinsky@oracle.com
> >  | Consulting Member Technical Staff   +1(650)506-1975 (voice)
> >  | Oracle Corporation                  +1(650)506-7225 (fax)
> >  | 400 Oracle Parkway, M/S 4OP960
> >  | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 USA
> >  |
> >  |
> 
Received on Monday, 8 April 2002 15:02:19 GMT

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