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RE: Layering in ebXML and WSA

From: Champion, Mike <Mike.Champion@SoftwareAG-USA.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:02:45 -0700
Message-ID: <9A4FC925410C024792B85198DF1E97E405007BC2@usmsg03.sagus.com>
To: www-ws-arch@w3.org

Hi Colleen,

I should have made my position clearer.  My main interest in this is to
clarify what WE do, not what ebXML does.  I don't think that *our* messaging
layer will have this "CPA" type of stuff in it (whatever it is!) but I don't
see anything in the document now that says that.  I'd like to nudge the
discussions started at the F2F forward, and I'm sorry if this thread is
taking it off into the weeds!

Still, I think it would be useful to harvest from this thread a paragraph or
two for the WSA doc on how the WSA accomodates or distinguishes itself from
the ebXML messaging model.  Some (e.g. Roger) have noted that they do have a
use case for "heavy" (sorry) B2B messaging with SOAP.  Can we learn from
ebXML, either positively or negatively, to address such use cases?  I fear
that if we ignore it, we'll not only fail to learn from actual experience in
this area but also setup Frequently Asked Questions that we'll have to
answer anyway.

But if others feel that this thread is a distraction, please just ignore it
and continue on with your productive work.  Or better yet, start an
anti-thread that clarifies what the WSA messaging model *is* using the
properties/relationships/constraints framework.  

As for BPSS and choreography, that's Martin's problem, not mine <grin>.  We
should be dealing with that only at the highest level, not digging into it.
I just want to know what things like "CPA" are at a high level and how they
relate to other properties, relationships, and constraints.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Colleen Evans [mailto:cevans@sonicsoftware.com] 
> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 11:33 AM
> To: Champion, Mike
> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
> Mike,
> While I agree there's value in doing this for ebXML users and 
> the community at large, I am concerned about the timing and 
> scope.  Where do we stop with the analysis of ebXML and WSA 
> layering?  Do we dig into BPSS and choreography as well?  If 
> we head in this direction we should carefully define and 
> bound the exercise, or we'll get into the weeds and slow down 
> our work on the architecture.
> I don't believe now is the right time to start this.  Our 
> document is in transition and we should get the core parts 
> we've identified solid before we branch off onto something 
> else.  Can we put it on the list and prioritize?
> Thanks,
> Colleen
> "Champion, Mike" wrote:
> > I for one am a bit overwhelmed by the "layers" thread.  
> What we need, 
> > and which I think someone out there must have the ability to 
> > summarize, is a paragraph or two on how messaging works in 
> ebXML (all 
> > these acronyms such as CPA are foreign to many of us!) and how that 
> > differs from the more typical "stack" conception in various 
> Web services architectures.
> >
> > I don't see any responses to Roger's
> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2003Feb/0073.html
> > I'm especially interested in observations on his assertion 
> that ebXML 
> > is heavily oriented toward early-bound, "heavy" B2B/EDI operations 
> > whereas typical Web services architectures are oriented toward 
> > late-bound and light operations.  This sounds plausible to 
> me, is it more or less correct?
> >
> > Finally, I'd like to see suggestions for how to discuss this in the 
> > WSA document. What properties, relationships, and constraints 
> > characterize ebXML messaging?
> >
> > Thanks for helping to direct this very informative discussion in a 
> > direction that is more useful to the WSA WG.
> >
> > Mike Champion
Received on Friday, 14 February 2003 12:03:32 UTC

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