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Re: arch diagrams from the f2f

From: Francis McCabe <fgm@fla.fujitsu.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:38:53 -0700
Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org, kreger@us.ibm.com, dorchard@bea.com, distobj@acm.org
To: jones@research.att.com
Message-Id: <0C501C66-CBFF-11D6-8E9B-000393A3327C@fla.fujitsu.com>

Hence the distinction between the relationship level and the task or 
contract level in my layered diagram :-)
Frank

On Thursday, September 19, 2002, at 10:39  AM, jones@research.att.com 
wrote:

>
> There is yet another issue muddled together in the description space.
> We need to distinguish between describing the service provider and a
> service being offered.  As in real life, I might want to select a
> service not only on the basis of the service offered, but also on
> parameters associated with the provider (number of years in business,
> privacy policies, etc.).
>
> Maybe the top of the logical description hierarchy should look like:
>   service provider description
>     (properties of providers,
>      references to services they provide, ...)
>   service description
>     (properties of a service,
>      backpointers to service providers??,
>      references to service interface descriptions,
>      service addresses)
>   service interface description
>
> In some schemes, given a service address, you can recover the other
> information associated with the service.  To get the service address
> in the first place, however, you might have to search based on
> properties of the service.
>
> In other schemes, the search might return a reference to a resource
> that represents the entire service description (properties,
> interface descriptions, service addresses, etc.).
>
> In this modeling exercise, we should probably think hard about what
> things we want to explicitly think of as (URI-referenceable) resources
> by the way.
>
> Mark Jones
> AT&T
>
> 	From www-ws-arch-request@w3.org Thu Sep 19 12:52 EDT 2002
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> 	From: "David Orchard" <dorchard@bea.com>
> 	To: "'Mark Baker'" <distobj@acm.org>, <jones@research.att.com>
> 	Cc: <kreger@us.ibm.com>, <www-ws-arch@w3.org>
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>
>
> 	I think there are 2 issues that are being muddled together.  We 
> probably
> 	need to separate them.
>
> 	There are at least 2 things that can be found from a "registry": The 
> actual
> 	address of a resource, and the interface for interacting with it.  
> Mark
> 	Baker is pointing out that there is no need to publish the input 
> interface
> 	for HTTP services, as HTTP defines the input interface.  For services 
> that
> 	use SOAP, or other XML defined inputs, there may a need to discover 
> the
> 	interface.  For example, a conversational web service might require a 
> soap
> 	header with a conversation ID or a callback address.  This discovery 
> could
> 	be through a variety of means - somebody mails me a copy of the spec, 
> I
> 	discover the spec in UDDI registry, I de-ref a namespace URI, etc.
>
> 	I think we need to distinguish between discovering the address of the
> 	service, and the shape or interface of messages to and from the 
> service.
>
> 	And BTW, I still don't think that HTTP is as generic as it appears.  
> To
> 	actually put information into the URL  and/or message, I as a human 
> still
> 	have to do some work.  Like fill in a form.  And the only way I know 
> what to
> 	put in the form is to "discover" the shape of the form from the web 
> site.
> 	So in a form case, I get an address to the service, and the service 
> provides
> 	the discovery mechanism and any new address for the actual service.  
> Imagine
> 	url A accesses return the form, and the form says that it should be 
> posted
> 	to url B.  Thus the discover/interact model for addresses and shapes 
> is used
> 	by the web.
>
> 	Cheers,
> 	Dave
>
> 	> -----Original Message-----
> 	> From: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:www-ws-arch-request@w3.org]On
> 	> Behalf Of Mark Baker
> 	> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:37 AM
> 	> To: jones@research.att.com
> 	> Cc: distobj@acm.org; kreger@us.ibm.com; www-ws-arch@w3.org
> 	> Subject: Re: arch diagrams from the f2f
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:08:17AM -0400,
> 	> jones@research.att.com wrote:
> 	> > You somehow still have to come by the URI in the first
> 	> place, whether
> 	> > by work of mouth, google, etc.
> 	>
> 	> A previous GET ...
> 	>
> 	> >  Being spidered is a form of "publish".
> 	>
> 	> I'd say spidering was "interact" and "find".  "publish" would
> 	> be listing
> 	> your URI via POST at http://www.google.com/addurl.html
> 	>
> 	> > Using google is a form of "find".
> 	>
> 	> To search, sure.  But it's also "interact".
> 	>
> 	> I'm going to drop this now.  I'm trying hard to focus on the
> 	> architecture document and SOAP+WSDL, but I can't help but comment on
> 	> things I see being a concern later on.
> 	>
> 	> MB
> 	> --
> 	> Mark Baker, CTO, Idokorro Mobile (formerly Planetfred)
> 	> Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA.               distobj@acm.org
> 	> http://www.markbaker.ca        http://www.idokorro.com
> 	>
> 	>
>
>
Received on Thursday, 19 September 2002 14:39:02 GMT

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