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Minutes of the 2002-04-18 teleconference

From: Hugo Haas <hugo@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:33:44 -0400
To: www-ws-arch@w3.org
Message-ID: <20020425223344.GK27670@jibboom.w3.org>
... are available at:


Text dump follows.




                       IRC log of ws-arch on 2002-04-18

   Timestamps are in UTC.


          hugo has changed the topic to: WSAWG weekly telcon

          Alan Davies is scribe


          Minutes of f2f - no objections to publication, after date is

          ACTION: Hugo to fix the dates in the minutes and publish them

          4. Review of action items

          DONE: * ACTION: Editorsannotate goal 01 and 011 in document as
          DONE: * ACTION: WG email out sub-group notes
          DONE: ACTION: Chris, figure out how to get more members on IRC
          DONE: ACTION: Editors: Rename D-AG0006 into AG-0006
          ACTION: DavidO: Send updated version of DAG0010 to the public
          list and say that it was accepted [PENDING]
          ACTION: Chris (and Zulah): send proposed wording to list and
          take it to email [PENDING]
          DONE: ACTION: Chris to bring up possibility of joint usage
          scenarios and glossary TF between WS WGs at next WS-CG meeting

          end of review of action items
          5. Status
          Coordination group status by Chris

          CG minutes: [3]http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/cg/2/04/16-minutes

          Consensus that common glossary and usage scenarios would be a
          good idea
          Glossary is in our charter; agreed that we will have a glossary
          First version will be an extract of terms from reqs document
          after it is published

          ChrisF, if you're taking volunteers for editing the glossary, I
          hereby do so--AllenBr

          Agreed AWB would own and be resp for WS Usage scenarios
          Other groups will provide feedback
          Daniel Austin expressed concern that a cross-group task force
          was not going to address this
          AWB is responsible for high-level usage scenarios
          lower level use cases may be owned by other WGs
          We can ask other groups to develop use cases we might identify
          Concern that we have responsibility but not authority
          This means we now have 2 more documents to be edited - editors?
          Allen Brown of Microsoft for glossary
          David for usage scenarios
          Aim to publish within next 3 months
          (clarified - refers to working draft)
          MikeM: Will usage scenarios reference use cases? Does gap
          analysis apply here?
          Answer: potentially yes.
          7. Upcoming F2F meetings:

          F2F Sept 11-13, Wash DC, hosted by DISA

          w/c 9 Sep, Arch 11-13 Sept, hosted by DISA in Washington DC
          Further details will be posted RSN
          Still to decide if we need a joint session with Desc WG
          Following F2F will be Nov/Dec - w/c Nov 11 currently being
          looked at
          Joe: potential conflict with IETF meeting
          Request that anyone with conflict for this week send email to

          Proposed Nov. F2F date: Nov 13-15

          Upcoming June F2F: Web page already set up; Jun 10-14 in Paris
          In process of looking for accommodation

          June F2F:

          Will include a half-day overlap meeting with Desc WG
          8. Publishing and Schedule
          Hugo: starting May 1st is publication moratorium
          What we are trying to get is requirements draft out by Monday
          Comments will be invited by end of business Wednesday in time
          for call Thursday 25th
          Will make go/no-go decision during call
          Aim is first draft - snapshot of where we are now - does not
          need to be perfect
          IPR statements will need to be published at the same time as
          working drafts
          Chris: Do members feel this is enough time?
          Silence taken to be yes...
          No-one uncomfortable with making go/no-go decision during call
          next week
          Like to begin glossary, usage scenarios, and arch itself ASAP
          discussion invited on how we can accelerate conclusion of our
          Proposed that we produce a second working draft after April,
          then move into 'amendment by issue' mode
          i.e. move from active mode to reactive mode
          Katia: Requirements document needs to be left open as we
          progress with Arch document
          Need to get first draft of req doc out before we start on arch
          Propose we have outline of Arch document before next F2F -
          Could set up sub-team to work on usage scenarios now
          sub-teams/task forces worked well in XMLP WG
          Clarification: David Orchard volunteered to work on usage
          Security sub-group would build case for creation of a Security

          I have a hard stop at 4:30... see you all next week

          Mike: (old fart) We're trying to get minimal agreement between
          competitors - we should be minimalist in our approach, to get
          Chris - i have to sign off in 5 mins

          ALL, we need a new scribe for the last 25 minutes...

          We need to navigate around showstoppers
          Question: what happened to all these goals?
          they are being reedited as we speak

          mike will scribe


          qos group reporting
          anne posted those notes to the list
          (the f2f list)
          subgroups to work in parallel
          security is an example
          usage scenario task force starting - see david o
          davidO: perhaps submit security, orchestration, use cases
          make it a requirement - for use case to map to a usage scenario
          katia: orchestration should be in glossary
          davidO: terms from US doc and ARCH doc will be found in the
          markH: orchestration is more of an extended interface to
          describe service paths
          which exposes some service state
          ie: describing service usage - srvice paths - rather than
          controlling workflow
          katia: orchestration may be a better word: error handling vs
          sequencing, etc
          joe: orchestration is more like composition
          ATT: interested in asynchrony
          Katia: failure handling is another term for workflow errors
          DavidO: should we take a first cut at slapping the terms
          this will tease out the subtle and big difference between the
          suggest - take a bunch of terms - relate them to the US and
          ARCH doc
          chris will finish the docs
          davidO: orchestration -- control vs interface aspects
          davidH: need champions for terms
          zulah?: we don't have domains to decompose the terms yet
          chris: maybe focus on reqs right now
          davidH: editors job is to write the concensus of the group
          including term definition closure
          chris: is that OK with the editors
          Alan: yes
          hao: how do public WS architectures differ from our W3c WS
          davidO: we don't have much to validate or invalidate these
          davidH: our principals have not been articulated
          bye all

          Zakim, please excuse us
          RRSAgent, what actions?

          I see 3 action items:
          ACTION: Hugo to fix the dates in the minutes and publish them
          recorded in
          ACTION: DavidO: Send updated version of DAG0010 to the public
          list and say that it was accepted [PENDING] [2]
          recorded in
          ACTION: Chris (and Zulah): send proposed wording to list and
          take it to email [PENDING] [3]
          recorded in


   Present: 37
   Apple                                           Mike Brumbelow
   AT&T                                            Mark Jones
   BEA Systems                                     David Orchard
   Carnegie Mellon University                      Katia Sycara
   ChevronTexaco                                   Roger Cutler
   Contivo                                         Dave Hollander
   DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology         Mario Jeckle
   DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology         Hans-Peter Steiert
   Digital Island                                  Joseph Hui
   Documentum                                      Don Robertson
   EDS                                             Mike Ballantyne
   France Telecom                                  Shishir Garg
   Hewlett-Packard Company                         Dorothea Beringer
   Hewlett-Packard Company                         Zulah Eckert
   IBM                                             Heather Kreger
   Intel Corporation                               Sharad Garg
   Intel Corporation                               Joel Munter
   Ipedo                                           Alex Cheng
   Ipedo                                           Srinivas Pandrangi
   Microsoft Corporation                           Allen Brown
   MITRE Corporation                               James Davenport
   Nokia                                           Michael Mahan
   Nortel Networks                                 Abbie Barbir
   Planetfred, Inc.                                Mark Baker
   Rogue Wave Software                             Patrick Thompson
   SeeBeyond Technology Corp                       Alan Davies
   Software AG                                     Michael Champion
   Sun Microsystems, Inc.                          Chris Ferris
   Sun Microsystems, Inc.                          Mark Hapner
   The Thomson Corporation                         Hao He
   TIBCO Software, Inc.                            Scott Vorthmann
   T-Nova Deutsche Telekom Innovationsgesellschaft Jens Meinkoehn
   W. W. Grainger, Inc.                            Daniel Austin
   W. W. Grainger, Inc.                            Tom Carroll
   W3C                                             David Booth
   W3C                                             Hugo Haas
   XQRL Inc.                                       Tom Bradford
   Regrets: 18
   AT&T                                            Ayse Dilber
   Cisco Systems Inc                               Sandeep Kumar
   Compaq                                          Yin-Leng Husband
   Compaq                                          Kevin Perkins
   Computer Associates                             Igor Sedukhin
   DISA                                            Marcel Jemio
   EDS                                             Waqar Sadiq
   Ericsson                                        Nilo Mitra
   Intalio Inc                                     Bob Lojek
   IONA                                            Steve Vinoski
   MITRE Corporation                               Paul Denning
   Oracle Corporation                              Jeff Mischkinsky
   SAP                                             Sinisa Zimek
   Sterling Commerce(SBC)                          Suresh Damodaran
   Sybase, Inc.                                    Himagiri Mukkamala
   Systinet                                        Anne Thomas Manes
   The Boeing Company                              Gerald Edgar
   webMethods, Inc.                                Prasad Yendluri
   Absent: 16
   Artesia Technologies                            Dipto Chakravarty
   Cisco Systems Inc                               Krishna Sankar
   CrossWeave, Inc.                                Timothy Jones
   IBM                                             Jim Knutson
   IONA                                            Eric Newcomer
   Macromedia                                      Glen Daniels
   Macromedia                                      Tom Jordahl
   MartSoft Corp.                                  Jun Chen
   MartSoft Corp.                                  Jin Yu
   Microsoft Corporation                           Henrik Nielsen
   Rogue Wave Software                             David Noor
   Software AG                                     Nigel Hutchison
   Sun Microsystems, Inc.                          Doug Bunting
   VeriSign, Inc.                                  Michael Mealling
   Waveset Technologies                            Darran Rolls
   XQRL Inc.                                       Daniela Florescu


   1. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-arch/2002Apr/0062.html
   2. http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/04/f2f-minutes
   3. http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/cg/2/04/16-minutes
   4. http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/04/f2fJuneLogistics.html
   5. http://www.w3.org/2002/04/18-ws-arch-irc#T19-42-41
   6. http://www.w3.org/2002/04/18-ws-arch-irc#T19-44-19
   7. http://www.w3.org/2002/04/18-ws-arch-irc#T19-44-30
Hugo Haas - W3C
mailto:hugo@w3.org - http://www.w3.org/People/Hugo/ - tel:+1-617-452-2092
Received on Thursday, 25 April 2002 18:33:45 UTC

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