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RE: EDI and Use Cases

From: David Orchard <dorchard@bea.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:52:59 -0800
To: "'Vadhri, Srinivas'" <Srinivas.Vadhri@commerceone.com>, "'Cutler, Roger \(RogerCutler\)'" <RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com>, "'Hugo Haas'" <hugo@w3.org>, <www-ws-arch@w3.org>
Message-ID: <02ab01c1dc33$da17a4f0$0100007f@beasys.com>
This is all design stuff.  Let's talk about the use cases, not designs.

Cheers,
Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-arch-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of Vadhri, Srinivas
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 3:36 PM
> To: 'Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler)'; 'Hugo Haas'; www-ws-arch@w3.org
> Subject: RE: EDI and Use Cases
> 
> 
> the 'To', 'From' - themselves could be URIs, the 'Control Number' in a
> message could be a GUID? What, for eg., a message needs to refer to an
> earlier message - a PurchaseOrder Response based on a 
> Purchase Order - a
> reference Control Number? How does one distinguish whether a 
> message has
> been sent multiple times - should the Control number (GUID) 
> gets generated
> (unique) each time?
> 
> Srinivas
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler) 
> [mailto:RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:14 PM
> To: 'Hugo Haas'; www-ws-arch@w3.org
> Subject: RE: EDI and Use Cases
> 
> 
> Does identifying messages with a URI satisfy the sequencing 
> requirement?
> Seems to me that it might not.  Also seems to me that using 
> URI's does not
> help with the queries noted below.
> 
> However, one might object that I am asking for intelligent 
> keys, which in
> some cirles is sort of a no-no.  So perhaps a URI is a 
> reasonable unique ID
> and the "To", "From" "Control Number" thing is at a lower 
> level?  That is,
> if one were talking relational databases the URI would be the key but
> "To/From/ControlNumber" might have constraints of required 
> and unique?  Does
> this make sense in this context?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hugo Haas [mailto:hugo@w3.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 1:52 PM
> To: www-ws-arch@w3.org
> Subject: Re: EDI and Use Cases
> 
> 
> * Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler) <RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com> 
> [2002-04-02
> 13:46-0600] [..]
> > I am, however, a bit concerned about two other issues that 
> appear to 
> > be important to EDI.  The first may be trivial, the second may be 
> > impossible -- but they are both things that seem to be 
> heavy hitters 
> > in terms of what is expected from a VAN so let me get them on the 
> > table for comment:
> > 
> > 1 - Unique message ID and sequencing.  It is very important 
> to be able 
> > to identify a message uniquely, and this identification is 
> generally 
> > contained in the enveloping mechanism.  (There are usually 
> other ID's 
> > in the body, but this is clearly beyond the scope of the 
> > infrastructure).  The unique identification is commonly done by the 
> > combination of "To", "From" and a sequential "control 
> number".  This 
> > facilitates queries like, "Did you get message N sent from 
> A to B?"  
> > "What messages of those sent from A to B are between N and 
> M?" and so 
> > on.  In addition, the datetime of message envelope creation (not 
> > necessarily the datetime sent) is also important.  As in "What 
> > messages were created on Tuesday by A?"  As I understand it, the 
> > sequencing is logical, not a guarantee of order of 
> delivery.  However, 
> > in some cases (as I understand it, this is unusual) the 
> sequencing may 
> > be required.  That is, control number 21 is not a valid 
> message unless 
> > (or until?) 20 has been received.
> 
> Identifying messages is a good idea. On the Web, the natural 
> way to do this
> is to use URIs.
> 
> * Damodaran, Suresh <Suresh_Damodaran@stercomm.com> 
> [2002-04-04 10:00-0600]
> [..]
> > ebXML Messaging  2.0 specification (the latest version 
> under review) 
> > requires a GUID (globally unique id) for all messages.
> > 
> > 3.1.6.1 MessageId Element
> > The REQUIRED element MessageId is a globally unique identifier for 
> > each message conforming to MessageId [RFC2822].
> 
> In ebXML Messaging  2.0, the message identifier is not 
> expressed as a URI
> AFAICT, but could be with the mid scheme[1].
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hugo
> 
>   1. http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/ietf/uri/rfc2111.txt
> -- 
> Hugo Haas - W3C
> mailto:hugo@w3.org - http://www.w3.org/People/Hugo/ - 
> tel:+1-617-452-2092
> 
> 
Received on Thursday, 4 April 2002 18:55:15 GMT

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