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Re: LANG: need to CLOSE Issue 5.6 Imports as magic syntax

From: Jim Hendler <hendler@cs.umd.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:47:26 -0500
Message-Id: <p0511170bb9e77e1eb422@[129.2.179.5]>
To: Jeff Heflin <heflin@cse.lehigh.edu>
Cc: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfps@research.bell-labs.com>, www-webont-wg@w3.org

At 9:58 AM -0500 10/31/02, Jeff Heflin wrote:
>Jim (and others)
>
>Those of you who read my discussion with Tim should realize that the
>solution he proposed was that if a document mentions a term from a
>namespace, that the statements from that namespace should be merged with
>the document when processing (essentially this an implict imports). I
>admitted that in the example I described, this would work (but only as a
>workaround, it would force people to design ontologies in a certain way
>to take advanatage of this behavior). Note, though to have any semantic
>interoperability, this behavior would have to be stated as <em>part of
>our semantics.<em> If we chose to do this, then it would also have the
>side effect that we would then not be able to add on the ability to
>"import parts of ontologies" because by default, simply mentioning a
>term from an ontology implicitly imports the whole thing.
>
>Jeff

yes, and several of us (Chair hat off - including me - Chair hat on) 
made it clear we couldn't live with that.  However, also worth noting 
that what Tim said seems to contradict what Dan said at the f2f was 
his policy (essentially the same as "follow your nose" which I don't 
see as meaning "import everything")
I see we still have a fair amount of confusion on this issue.

As chair, it's beginning to look like we may need to have a real 
role-call vote on this issue.  If we don't see something emerge 
before the next meeting, we may go to an online vote and call the 
issue.  Please think hard about it, and especially if anyone has a 
thought on how we might reach consensus on this issue, I'd love to 
share it

Voting (and recording the dissent) would not be the end of the world, 
but I am still hoping that there is a consensus approach out there we 
just haven't thought about yet.
  -JH


>
>Jim Hendler wrote:
>>
>>  [various stuff snipped]
>>
>>  I've been avidly following this discussion, and also carefully read
>>  the dialog between Jeff and Tim Berners-Lee publicly logged at [1].
>>  I find myself torn - on the one hand, I'm certainly familiar with
>>  Jeff's work in SHOE and the use of something like "imports" to mean
>>  "Commits to" -- i.e. that I agree with EVERYTHING that some ontology
>>  (or set of instances or whatever) says, whether I link to it directly
>>  or not. On the other hand, I'm beginning to better understand what
>>  Dan (and Tim) are saying about maybe we want to allow more freedom to
>>  explore different commitment methods and the like.
>>
>>  I would ask the following - if imports is an optional feature (we've
>>  already agreed it doesn't have to be used), and since anyone can
>>  invent their own term to explore a different commitment strategy what
>>  is the downside of including an imports statement of the type Jeff
>>  advocates?)
>>
>>  For example, I am playing with something that looks a bit like this:
>>
>>    <> jim:commits
>>      [jim:partialMappingTo foo: ;
>>       jim:usingMappingRules bar: ] .
>>
>>  in some recent research, and don't see where the existence of
>>  imports, which I won't use here, bothers me.  I couldn't live with
>>  the meaning that referring to something in another ontology
>>  automatically had the strong implication that imports does (total
>>  agreement), but I have no real problem with one I don't have to use,
>>  but can if I want that particular meaning.
>>
>>  So Dan, I guess this is to you -- why do you think including one
>>  particular imports method would be premature standardization?  Would
>>  it help if we made sure that documents (all or some) made it very
>>  clear that this use of imports was optional?
>>    -JH
>>
>>  p.s. This is not meant to be rhetorical, I'm really trying to
>>  understand both sides.
>>
>>  [1] http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2002-10-30.html
>>  --
>>  Professor James Hendler                           hendler@cs.umd.edu
>>  Director, Semantic Web and Agent Technologies     301-405-2696
>  > Maryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab.    301-405-6707 (Fax)
>>  Univ of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742          240-731-3822 (Cell)
>>  http://www.cs.umd.edu/users/hendler


-- 
Professor James Hendler				  hendler@cs.umd.edu
Director, Semantic Web and Agent Technologies	  301-405-2696
Maryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab.	  301-405-6707 (Fax)
Univ of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742	  240-731-3822 (Cell)
http://www.cs.umd.edu/users/hendler
Received on Thursday, 31 October 2002 19:47:32 GMT

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