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Re: Minutes of WebOnt Meeting August 22, 2002 9:00-10:30 am pacific time

From: Deborah McGuinness <dlm@KSL.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:41:49 -0700
Message-ID: <3D6665CD.7ED2F17@ksl.stanford.edu>
To: Ian Horrocks <horrocks@cs.man.ac.uk>
CC: Jim Hendler <hendler@cs.umd.edu>, webont <www-webont-wg@w3.org>



Ian Horrocks wrote:

> On August 23, Deborah McGuinness writes:
> >
> > Who owns the write permission on the log file?
> > can i as scribe ask for the line i typed
> > "flipped a coin and picked manchester"
> > and be replaced by the line jim typed
> > ""consider it as if we flipped a coin and picked Manchester"
> >
> > on jim's point below on appearing to choose boston, i think people were
> > objecting to the fact that boston as a suggested (and very likely) fwf6
> > location was being taken into consideration after the online poll and it
> > appeared to influence the choice of manchester.
>
> Deb,
>
> The WG agreed to let the chairs decide about f2f5. The factors that
> may or may not have influenced the chairs' decision are not relevant.
>
> > at least this was one of my reasons for dissatisfaction with the process and
> > one thing I had not anticipated when during the previous telecon, there was
> > a suggestion to let the chairs make the decision.

sorry - i should have been clearer when i stated a suggestion was made.  When the
suggestion was made, i would have not remained silent if i had thought things not
covered in the online poll would be taken into consideration that would possibly
make a big difference over what I thought was the feeling - that ny won online and
that there was a split (8-7) in the quick straw poll in the call.
Because I and others remained silent and thus no one protested the suggestion,
that led to the decision that was made.

when i mentioned suggestion in my email above, i was referring to the time that it
was a suggestion and to the time that I should have thought more carefully before
allowing it to be a decision without voicing my concerns and thus allowing it to
move to a decision.

I will not do that again.

> There wasn't a "suggestion", there was a *decision*. Reading from the
> log:
>
> 16:13:27 [jhendler]
>      ACTION: group being split between NY and Manchester in
>      preference, chairs will determine and inform group.
>
> This is exactly what has happened.
>
> Ian
>
> >
> > Jim Hendler wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > >chairs were to decide f2f5 location
> > > >16:17:18 [dlm]
> > > >3 points:
> > > >16:17:26 [dlm]
> > > >1 - even distribution between europe and us
> > > >16:17:40 [dlm]
> > > >2 colocation with plenary in march in boston is desirable
> > > >16:18:00 [dlm]
> > > >3 many things may be needed to get things inplace for discussion
> > > >16:18:36 [dlm]
> > > >two meetings in a row in england
> > > >16:19:01 [dlm]
> > > >are now proposed
> > > >16:19:17 [Zakim]
> > > >+??P3
> > > >16:19:51 [dlm]
> > > >stein points to center of mass for participants and suggests that the
> > > >split between europe and us evenly does not meet the center of mass
> > > >16:20:20 [dlm]
> > > >eastern us is closer to center of mass for participants
> > > >16:21:00 [dlm]
> > > >maintaining 3 in us and 3 in europe seems an arbitrary decision
> > > >16:22:09 [dlm]
> > > >manchester has an access grid room
> > > >16:22:47 [dlm]
> > > >one choice point is 2 meetings in england now or two meetings in the us
> > > >in 2003
> > > >16:24:18 [dlm]
> > > >decision wasabout f2f 5
> > > >16:24:41 [dlm]
> > > >flipped a coin and picked manchester
> > >
> > > That last line is taken out of context and I protest it!  What I
> > > said, after several people objected that Guus and I appeared to be
> > > making a f2f6 decision for Boston (which we didn't - we just
> > > suggested it), was "so forget the Boston part and consider it as if
> > > we flipped a coin and picked Manchester"
> > >
> > > By the way, I am quite surprised by the flap today over location.  At
> > > the last telecon we resolved:
> > >
> > > >16:13:27 [jhendler]
> > > >ACTION: group being split between NY and Manchester in preference,
> > > >chairs will determine and inform group.
> > >
> > > which was requested of me and Guus after we both made it clear we'd
> > > rather the group picked.  However,  since there was a virtual split
> > > decision to a straw poll, we were delegated the responsibility.  Next
> > > time if you don't want us to make a decision, please don't ask us to
> > > do so.
> >
> > agreed -  in hindsight if i were the chairs I would not take this position
> > again
> > and as a person on the call if I could,
> > I would take back my silence on the proposal to leave it up to the chairs
> > and ask for a vote (not a straw poll) for group decision where the
> > considerations were made explicit.
> >
> > >
> > >   -JH
> > >
> > > --
> > > Professor James Hendler                           hendler@cs.umd.edu
> > > Director, Semantic Web and Agent Technologies     301-405-2696
> > > Maryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab.    301-405-6707 (Fax)
> > > Univ of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742          240-731-3822 (Cell)
> > > http://www.cs.umd.edu/users/hendler
> >
> > --
> >  Deborah L. McGuinness
> >  Knowledge Systems Laboratory
> >  Gates Computer Science Building, 2A Room 241
> >  Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-9020
> >  email: dlm@ksl.stanford.edu
> >  URL: http://ksl.stanford.edu/people/dlm
> >  (voice) 650 723 9770    (stanford fax) 650 725 5850   (computer fax)  801
> > 705 0941
> >

--
 Deborah L. McGuinness
 Knowledge Systems Laboratory
 Gates Computer Science Building, 2A Room 241
 Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-9020
 email: dlm@ksl.stanford.edu
 URL: http://ksl.stanford.edu/people/dlm
 (voice) 650 723 9770    (stanford fax) 650 725 5850   (computer fax)  801 705
0941
Received on Friday, 23 August 2002 12:42:00 GMT

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