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RE: re-raising an old issue

From: Jeremy Carroll <jjc@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:16:43 +0100
To: "Pat Hayes" <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>, <www-webont-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <JAEBJCLMIFLKLOJGMELDKEMDCDAA.jjc@hplb.hpl.hp.com>

I believe I raised the idea, and clarified it in:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Feb/0197.html


I think in current terminology it would be saying that rdf:type generated
"dark" triples, that were "dark" in the sense that rdf:type is not asserted
as a property in the normal sense (even in RDF) but interpreted in a
different way (in the RDFS layer) using an ICEXT in the RDF Model Theory
which would be a primitive rather than defined in terms of IEXT(rdf:type).

I think given we have now probably missed the boat in getting a change of
that significance into the RDF Model Theory.

I think it is a good example of how I see the RDF Model Theory encoding
syntactic structures in the model rather than the more usual having the
interpretation respect the syntactic structures.

In RDFS this is exemplified by:

<#a> <#foo> <#bar> .
<#foo> <rdfs:subPropertyOf> <rdf:type> .

entailing

<#bar> <rdf:type> <rdfs:class> .

If rdf:type generated dark triples and/or were understood as being a
syntactic structure which is implicitly rather than explicitly represented
in the model, then as far as I understand, the above entailment would not
follow.

Jeremy




> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-webont-wg-request@w3.org
> [mailto:www-webont-wg-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Pat Hayes
> Sent: 19 April 2002 23:36
> To: www-webont-wg@w3.org
> Subject: re-raising an old issue
>
>
> Earlier in the year when Peter and Deiter were producing their
> layering document, I was rather out of the loop and got behind
> reading all the email discussions. Going back over it now, I find
> that an idea was being discussed about a possible change to RDF,
> which was phrased as "moving rdf:type to the meta-theory". (eg 1a in
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Feb/0058.html)
>
> I have absolutely no idea what this means or could possibly mean.
> (What meta-theory??) Can anyone enlighten me about what exactly this
> proposal was? A pointer would suffice, if the idea has been written
> up somewhere.
>
> I would like to know, as the thinking behind this might well be
> relevant to the layering issue, and it seems likely that these will
> be with us for the forseeable future, as the system consisting of RDF
> coreWG, Webont and the Coordination Committee seems to have the
> dynamics of a freeway accident played in slow-motion.
>
> Pat Hayes
> --
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> phayes@ai.uwf.edu
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>
>
Received on Monday, 22 April 2002 07:17:25 GMT

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